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+--- Thread: A7 Headlamps (/showthread.php?tid=8903)
RE: A7 Headlamps - Dave Wortley - 26-09-2023
Would it be reasonable to say that the majority of people interested in our kind of cars are fairly mature with eyesight usually not as good as it was 50 years ago? Surely we need to be able to take advantage of the latest technology as far as lighting is concerned, bearing in mind that new vehicles have headlights which seem capable of burning roadside hedges as they pass.
Looking at the E marking regulations appears to be a can of worms which started me nodding off. It does seem quite stupid as Steve Jones mentioned. I suspect our current government has a bit too much on its plate to consider such things at the moment.
RE: A7 Headlamps - Steve Jones - 26-09-2023
(26-09-2023, 05:59 PM)Dave Wortley Wrote: Would it be reasonable to say that the majority of people interested in our kind of cars are fairly mature with eyesight usually not as good as it was 50 years ago? Surely we need to be able to take advantage of the latest technology as far as lighting is concerned, bearing in mind that new vehicles have headlights which seem capable of burning roadside hedges as they pass.
Looking at the E marking regulations appears to be a can of worms which started me nodding off. It does seem quite stupid as Steve Jones mentioned. I suspect our current government has a bit too much on its plate to consider such things at the moment.
Of course, Dave. I imagine that the vast majority of those in authority have no knowledge of the actual situation in respect of the legality or otherwise of after market LEDs and hell will probably freeze over before legislation catches up. However, some MOT testers are aware and will, and do, fail cars fitted with after market LED bulbs. The MOT man that does my moderns is well aware and suggests that a pre-test bulb change might be a good idea when booking a test for an old car so fitted. What happens after the test is, of course, not his business. Of course, if your MOT man doesn't bother or you don't take your car for an MOT then that ceases to be an issue. Perhaps an insurance company wouldn't be so accomodating if the worst was to happen. It is a fact, though, that the use of these bulbs contravenes the regulations as they currently stand and some of the more responsible sellers point this out on their web sites. They do that to cover their backsides in the event of that worst happening. From their point of view a reasonable stance for them to take putting any liability on to us as end users. Think about that. In the end, it's down to each individual owner's view of the balance between complying with the regulations against seeing and being seen. Some of the LED bulbs are amazing, particularly these pre-focused LED bulbs that transform the lighting on scuttle lamped Chummys etc. Just hope that the benefit in lighting far outweighs the risk of the worst happening with all that will follow.
Steve
RE: A7 Headlamps - Colin Ayre45 - 26-09-2023
Steve
If you refer to MOT Special notice 01-21 a directive was issued to all testers that cars built pre 1st April 1986 should be passed if fitted with LED lights, cars built post 1st April 1986 should continue to fail
Special notice 01-21 is available on line. More mud for the water.
RE: A7 Headlamps - John Mason - 27-09-2023
I have the answer to Led lights. Yes they are illegal to use on Uk roads. No matter how good your argument is for using them and yes I now they are good and produce a fair bit of illumination but as in many cases the law is an ass. Only drive in daylight.
John Mason.
RE: A7 Headlamps - Charles P - 27-09-2023
(26-09-2023, 09:14 PM)Colin Ayre45 Wrote: Steve
If you refer to MOT Special notice 01-21 a directive was issued to all testers that cars built pre 1st April 1986 should be passed if fitted with LED lights, cars built post 1st April 1986 should continue to fail
Special notice 01-21 is available on line. More mud for the water.
That has now been withdrawn
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions
LED conversions are covered in the normal MOT manual
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment
RE: A7 Headlamps - Reckless Rat - 27-09-2023
Legally you're still contravening the regulations driving during daylight hours if non CE approved bulbs are fitted, but let's be fair and sensible here. Coppers have got far more important things to do and as far as an A7 is concerned it is far better for the driver to be able to see and be seen than risk a problem driving at night using 6v incandescent power. My RP had LED bulbs all round and I am far more confident using it at night (if I am unfortunately so caught out) than before. It's progress and it's safety.
Remember what Sir Robert Mark said a long time ago "I'm convinced it's a major contribution to Road Safety" (OK that was about tyres but whatever)
Nothing to see here folks, move on.
RE: A7 Headlamps - Ivor Hawkins - 27-09-2023
CE approval? I thought we’d managed to get out of all that nonsense?
Anyway Bruce, I agree with you, it’s more important to see and be seen, I have to admit, I thought I would be okay with the standard set up on my RP, but the equivalent of the glow worm in the jam jar is not cutting it around the lanes here at night!
RE: A7 Headlamps - Tony Griffiths - 27-09-2023
"I have seen LED bulbs stamped 'CE.' But these are made in China, and that country is well known for peppering every electrical thing sent to Europe with The Mark.
In the next village is an outfit that tests the safety of various types of equipment and also teaches companies in other countries how to correctly reach and test for 'CE' standards. Several years ago, I asked them if everything electrical from China met the standards. The reply? 'Well, we've tested lots of such items, and we reckon fewer than 10% are legitimate.'
'What's the machine you're testing at the moment?' I asked, pointing to some sort of electric discharge welder. 'Oh, it's here to see if mechanically and electrically it meets safety standards, such as being able to be switched off by the operator in his normal working position. Let's pretend you're working on it. Stand in front of the machine and reach out and stab at the big red off button on the control quadrant.'
So, I did. And when I reached out to press the Big Red Stop Button, the whole control panel swung away out of reach.
'Made in China?' I enquired. 'No,' came the reply. "The USA."
(27-09-2023, 04:58 PM)Charles P Wrote:Thank you for the MOT pages. What interesting documents they are, especially "complying with regulations" e.g. they allow buses used before the 1st of April 1955 to have only one rear light. Surely, if a bus can get away with this, why not a car? Vehicles first used before 1 January 1971 can be fitted with only one stop lamp mounted centrally or towards the offside. Cars in use before September the 1st 1967 can have white front indicators and red at the rear- who knew that?(26-09-2023, 09:14 PM)Colin Ayre45 Wrote: Steve
If you refer to MOT Special notice 01-21 a directive was issued to all testers that cars built pre 1st April 1986 should be passed if fitted with LED lights, cars built post 1st April 1986 should continue to fail
Special notice 01-21 is available on line. More mud for the water.
That has now been withdrawn
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions
LED conversions are covered in the normal MOT manual
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment
RE: A7 Headlamps - Howard Wright - 29-09-2023
Hi All
Moving away from the legality and MOT requirements……I’ve invested in a pair of these headlamps for the Special. This is fitted with early Chummy scuttle lamps which only have double contact ba15 holders. So the following would apply to factory cars as well. Simply fitting the new bulbs results in dip on the sidelight setting and main on the head setting with no provision for sidelights.
So this is my solution… small ba9 holders clipped into the reflector using Terry clips and a motorcycle handlebar dip switch. The Terry clips are pop riveted to the reflector so only two small holes are needed (one for the clip and one for the cable). There was a bit of extra wiring to get an extra feed to each lamp and to the switch. The switch was meant for 7/8” handlebars but with a longer (bent) screw it seems to fit OK.
Cheers
Howard
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RE: A7 Headlamps - Hugh Barnes - 29-09-2023
With the limited current draw of the LED headlamp bulbs, is there anything to be gained by having an additional sidelight over running on dipped headlights?