RH Renewal's

[RH Insurance]

Emma, you never seem to have resolved this issue where organisers of events ask us to sign to say we have Public Liability Insurance. RH do not include this cover apparently. Hagerty tell me they do. My renewal is due in 4 days.

Hi Andrew,

I have been speaking to Pete Barrett, General Manager of the Birch Court office which provides the day-to-day servicing of the RH account and a number of other classic car brands - owned by the Howden Group.  

There is often confusion over public liability vs third party liability and this topic has been raised on numerous occasions by various clubs and individuals over the years.  

Pete has previously confirmed that motor insurance policies do not give Public Liability cover, which is in line with the standard approach throughout the motor insurance industry. 

Comprehensive motor insurance policies give third party liability cover which provides cover for the policyholder whilst on private property.   This could be pulling onto your drive, driving in a supermarket car park, or at a show/event - with the exception in most cases where the vehicle is airside or on a motor racing circuit.  

This means that, in the event you are driving your vehicle and you collide with a third party (that could be property, people or another vehicle), then you have cover in place to avoid paying for the resultant damage out of your own pocket.  

In addition, if your vehicle was parked on a hill and the handbrake failed causing it to roll into another person's vehicle, this is also an insurable event.  

Section 1 of RH's policy wording does, cover 'liability to others'.  For example, if the insured's actions had led to someone tripping over their stationary vehicle whilst attending an event.

Aside from ERS, exclusive insurer for the RH scheme, Pete also works with a panel of insurers - one of them being Hagerty.  

Pete confirmed reviewing Hagerty's current policy wording, Section 9 - third party liability cover, that it contains similar wording to the RH policy wording (provided by ERS) and there is no reference in Hagerty's wording to public liability cover which is in line with the rest of the motor insurance industry.

I can confirm, on behalf of RH, that you are covered for attending events in terms of third party liability to others.

Event organisers should have public liability cover in place for themselves as potentially an accident at the event (trip or fall) could render them liable for resultant injury or damage claims.  

Pete would be happy to discuss with you if you have any further queries and can be contacted at: peter.barrett@aplan.co.uk. 

Kind regards,

Emma

[andrew34ruby]

Emma, you never seem to have resolved this issue where organisers of events ask us to sign to say we have Public Liability Insurance. RH do not include this cover apparently. Hagerty tell me they do. My renewal is due in 4 days.

Hi Andrew,

I have been speaking to Pete Barrett, General Manager of the Birch Court office which provides the day-to-day servicing of the RH account and a number of other classic car brands - owned by the Howden Group.  

There is often confusion over public liability vs third party liability and this topic has been raised on numerous occasions by various clubs and individuals over the years.  

Pete has previously confirmed that motor insurance policies do not give Public Liability cover, which is in line with the standard approach throughout the motor insurance industry. 

Comprehensive motor insurance policies give third party liability cover which provides cover for the policyholder whilst on private property.   This could be pulling onto your drive, driving in a supermarket car park, or at a show/event - with the exception in most cases where the vehicle is airside or on a motor racing circuit.  

This means that, in the event you are driving your vehicle and you collide with a third party (that could be property, people or another vehicle), then you have cover in place to avoid paying for the resultant damage out of your own pocket.  

In addition, if your vehicle was parked on a hill and the handbrake failed causing it to roll into another person's vehicle, this is also an insurable event.  

Section 1 of RH's policy wording does, cover 'liability to others'.  For example, if the insured's actions had led to someone tripping over their stationary vehicle whilst attending an event.

Aside from ERS, exclusive insurer for the RH scheme, Pete also works with a panel of insurers - one of them being Hagerty.  

Pete confirmed reviewing Hagerty's current policy wording, Section 9 - third party liability cover, that it contains similar wording to the RH policy wording (provided by ERS) and there is no reference in Hagerty's wording to public liability cover which is in line with the rest of the motor insurance industry.

I can confirm, on behalf of RH, that you are covered for attending events in terms of third party liability to others.

Event organisers should have public liability cover in place for themselves as potentially an accident at the event (trip or fall) could render them liable for resultant injury or damage claims.  

Pete would be happy to discuss with you if you have any further queries and can be contacted at: peter.barrett@aplan.co.uk. 

Kind regards,

Emma

Emma, you might well be correct in everything you say here, but when various organisers of events insist that we sign to say that we have Public Liability insurance, it gets awkward when you say we do not have that insurance.

[Andy Bennett]

Andrew: I have a feeling this may be more of an issue of the organisers knowledge and understanding of insurance.
I have been involved in other events (beekeeping at third party shows and 'experience days' for blacksmithing at my home) and have seen similar questions.
In my less than expert knowledge, it is the event organiser who must have public liability insurance, so, if we attended a country show with bees it was the show organiser who must carry the public liability insurance for the event as a whole, but when I hold a blacksmithing day at my home I must have public liability insurance for the venue (for which I do and have risk assessments etc as a requirement of the insurance).
I think the principle it comers down to who is more likely to have money if sued and if uninsured. That comes down to the event organiser, so they always carry the insurance for the event as a whole.
As an individual you need to have your own insurance for any injury you might personally cause to anyone, whether that is on the road or at an event.

What RH are saying is that they do indeed cover you for that. They can do no more without specifics of any specific event, where I guess they could provide you with individual public liability insurance in parallel with that held by the organiser.

So, if an event organiser asks you for public liability insurance you should simply say no, that is for them to organise. Perhaps cross out 'public liability' and replace it with 'third party' and sign. The only exception is if someone has offered a venue for you to hold a car meet event, then of course it is up to you to arrange the event insurance.

I am guessing that not one of the 1000 cars at the Centenary event had public liability insurance but the organisers did!

[Howard Wright]

Hi All

I’d like to thank Emma for explaining this issue so well.  On a couple of occasions last year I saw the requirement for public liability insurance on the entry form for local shows. I enquired if the organisers had Public Liability Insurance.  One did and I attended…the other didn’t so I passed.

If we all take this course of action organisers will soon realise that they need to have Public Liability Insurance and budget for it, rather than trying to pass on their responsibility.

Cheers

Howard

[andrew34ruby]

Andy, Howard, I agree and I knew all of that. The problem is that the organisers ask me to sign to say I have PL insurance. I've tried crossing that bit out, I've tried not signing, and I simply get my application rejected. It's an odd situation and my fix was to enquire with Hagerty, they said they were aware of the situation and they were happy to inform me that insurance cover with them did indeed include Public liability. I insured with Hagerty, and now Emma tells us that Hagerty insurance does not include Public Liability. All very strange.

[Chris Garner]

We have the 'Nash insured with Hagerty and there is no mention of Public Liability Insurance in any of their ( copious ) documentation...and I would not have expected there to be.

[Hugh Barnes]

My opinion doesn't necessarily add a lot to the discussion but if I were considering attending an event where the organisers asked me to have PL insurance, I just wouldnt attend. It is not my responsibility to provide something that the organisers should clearly be responsible for...

[John H]

Hi John,
I'm sorry to read that you had errors in your renewal paperwork.  Please don't hesitate to email a copy of your documentation to me - highlighting any errors - and I will work with the Team to resolve any outanding issues asap.
Kind regards,
Emma
emma.airey@rhspecialistinsurance.co.uk

Hi Emma. The team were eventually able to correct everything when I actually renewed, so it should all be sorted now. Nevertheless, some of the errors were fundamental to my cover. For example, my home address was incomplete, and one of my cars was recorded as garaged at a totally different address on our street. Some of the car details were wrong, and the level of cover had changed from agreed value to market value. All those details were correct the previous year, so something had gone wrong for them to mysteriously change in the meantime. Anyway, hopefully all in order now.

John.

[Ruairidh Dunford]

My opinion doesn't necessarily add a lot to the discussion but if I were considering attending an event where the organisers asked me to have PL insurance, I just wouldnt attend. It is not my responsibility to provide something that the organisers should clearly be responsible for...

Absolutely correct, Hugh.

This is nothing to do with car insurance and everything to do with (the lack of) organiser insurance.

[andrew34ruby]

My opinion doesn't necessarily add a lot to the discussion but if I were considering attending an event where the organisers asked me to have PL insurance, I just wouldnt attend. It is not my responsibility to provide something that the organisers should clearly be responsible for...

Absolutely correct, Hugh.

This is nothing to do with car insurance and everything to do with (the lack of) organiser insurance.

It seems to be a lack of understanding from the organisers. The event might have insurance in place, it might not, we don't know, but while organisers ask for a signature to say that entrants have Public Liability in place then the only way seems to be to stay at home. It seems such a shame that an event is taking place but I cannot attend. Not attending would seriousely reduce the number of events I attend each year.