Surely the regulation does not render original 18w or near bulbs, for which the dynamo was reasonably matched, illegal? if everyone is running 30 w bulbs and attempting to match output little wonder so much dynamo trouble.
Is there a minimum for taillights? Original Seven very feeble, single or paired. (large reflectors, possibly detachable, can counter)
04-02-2022, 08:30 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2022, 08:33 PM by Steve kay.)
I suggest that there are two issues being discussed. The vehicle regulations are indeed distinctly inadequate, as mentioned above 30w or similar refers to consumption, lumens refers to emitted light. Most MOT men shrug at what is written down and check that all lights work and the headlights are correctly lined up. The point about the Blackpool lights strung up across an SUV satisfying construction & use regs is valid, is there no restriction on area of lighting, or height above ground?
The last Measham was a mess. Just thinking about getting a copy of the Blue Book off the bookshelf gives me a headache. MSUK regs are far from clear cut, those relating to stage rallies having peripheral significance for night nav events. Neither of Martin Jelley’s rallies pre or post the Measham banned cars with LEDs. MCC trials through the night do not ban cars or bikes withLEDs. The MACdid not tell early competitors not to leave the Squirrel car park illuminated with LEDs or forbid late finishers to return with such lights. For the Measham there was an understandable sensitivity from the RLO and others about stage rally boys passing through villages and hamlets with a great range of Cibies, which to avoid upsetting people, rally regs tell them not to use on the public roads. How that became an issue for our machines remains a puzzle.
I completely agree with the sentiments much expressed above. LEDs let me see where I am going, and they allow my Ruby to run with original 6v Dynamo and electrics. The rear lights tell other road users that I am in front of them.
(04-02-2022, 08:03 PM)dickie65 Wrote: I think modern car lighting would fail in the old UK construction and use regs. !!!!! How can they get away with lights so high off the ground !!???
I would just ignore the regs and make your lights work so that you can drive safely.
I have my LED converted rear lights aimed slightly upwards so that they can be seen be following cars.
I also have a red retro reflective 2" strip across the back of the car, its very effective !!
It does not look too horrendous on a Cherry Red backside.
In 1926 Austin attempted to modernise the Seven by moving the headlamps from the scuttle to beside the radiator; I think it was Hampshire police that pointed out the new location was not legal, as the headlamps were now too far from the extremity of the car. So how is it that modern BMWs, amongst others, now have their lights even further from the outside edge of the bodywork? As far as I am aware the Construction & Use Regulations have never been amended in that regard, and yet manufacturers apparently can disregard the regulations.
Steve, the GN may have had only one headlight, but it did have side-lights on the scuttle showing the width of the car (I forget the dimensions but I think the outer edge of the lamp - head or side - had to be within 4" of the outer edge of the vehicle). I don't know about the early Cup model, Ruairidh - did they not have separate sidelights?
(04-02-2022, 05:21 PM)Mike Costigan Wrote: According to the Government's own website, the official wording of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations that affects our cars is as follows:
The minimum wattage of a bulb or sealed beam unit must be 30W for vehicles first used before 1 April 1986.
and
Existing headlamps on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with HID or LED light sources, The complete unit may be replaced but the vehicle must then comply with the requirements for headlamp washers and levelling devices
The exceptions to these regulations do not cover our cars, so my interpretation is that bulbs of less than 30 watts are not legal, but LED-converted lamps are; no mention of E-marking!. However, I am not a lawyer...
Apparently, the regulation allowing LED conversions on pre 1986 cars came into being in March 2021. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...onversions Previously, lamps converted to LED would have been an MOT fail as stated in the above document.
05-02-2022, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2022, 12:05 PM by Mike Wood.)
It is interesting to hear this discussion about VSCC and alternators potentially being OK as long as not too conspicuous.
As many folk on here must have done, an alternator conversion is/was common DIY mod for those of us that run/ran BMC/BLMC/BL A Series engined cars of the late 1950s to early 1970s that were 12V dynamo equipped, such as MG Midgets, Austin Healey Sprites, Austin A35, Morris Minors and Minis.
This was primarily a way to keep going or improve everyday transport budget secondhand cars - such as my rusty 850 Mini and 850 Mini van in the 1980s. This had the advantage of not having to pick which two electrical items from the menu to use on a wet, cold night - wipers and lights, but no heater/‘de-mister’ (re-distributor of interior fug) (as for your home installed radio - nae chance to keep you company on a long journey). Scrap cars were a source of Lucas alternators (and if unlucky you had a core one to use for an exchange rebuilt item) and alternator plugs, as well as splashing out for a new alternator at Lucas depots or Minispares Centre etc and the conversion to negative earth done at the same time; quality issues with replacement voltage regulators was a factor too (and still is) as is lack of folk who have the knowledge and skills to adjust /service/ repair them (rather than me who ineffectually, ignorantly and incompetently fiddled with voltage regulators in the dark using a Haynes car manual).
Now as an owner of a 1961 Austin Healey Sprite MkII for fun, not everyday transport, I have got it charging its battery properly by having the original Lucas C39 dynamo rebuilt and obtaining a genuine Lucas voltage regulator that has been properly checked/serviced (thanks Dr John E Davies for sorting these along with my rev counter gearbox). It also allows my original rev counter to work as it is driven off the rear of the dynamo through a tiny reduction gearbox. Without such help until recently I would have just switched to a Lucas alternator and change the car from positive earth to negative earth and had to fit a later electrically powered rev counter (not with the correct lovely Healey style face) to replace my cable driven one. An expensive alternative these days are the alternators that externally look like Lucas dynamos - e.g. Dynamators - including the option of one with the rev counter take off.
Another modern option for my case is the availability of small lightweight Japanese alternators by Denso. This is a tempting, if not period-ish looking at all, instead of worrying about the quality now of recently produced ‘Lucas’ alternators.
Enough rambling. But it highlights how options change with time and how cost, desirability and availability of mods change as well as one’s circumstances, transport requirements and perspective.
If we go back to the thoughts of impecunious enthusiasts of the 1950s-1980s, people would fit what was available at that time that could meet their needs in terms of availability and cost of a replacement components/conversion, skill and tools and a place to fit it, and if there was any choice what additional advantage it offered beyond whether they could afford/obtain/fit it. Noting when this was someone’s only mode of transport, rather than an additional leisure vehicle, then it had to be got mobile again quickly and economically, often fixed in the street with a few tools. If Denso alternators were available and cheap in the 1980s my Minis would have had them as a quality good value upgrade to improve reliability and useability, my Sprite will stay with positive earth and a dynamo until I face a problem I cannot fix with the dynamo and voltage regulator - if that happens will be a Dynamator conversion if I can stretch to the extra expense, if not a good Lucas alternator (if one can be found) and accept the loss of rev counter drive and use of a very obviously wrong looking rev counter gauge. I note you can now even buy again positive earth ‘Lucas’ dynamos as well as positive earth ‘Dynamators’, but not sure why anyone would bother with either conversion as positive earth - why not switch to neg earth at the same time (and neg earth dynamos and Dynamators more readily available and wider choice).
It is interesting to see what the 750 Motor Club Historic Formula 750 racers count as in period mods (I do understand that VSCC are thinking of a different period and H750 Formula includes Reliant as well as A7 engined specials) - IIRC silicone hoses are OK as long as they are not modern bright colours (eg Samco blue) but black but I am not sure if a Denso, rather than a Lucas, alternator would be OK if not going for total loss electrical system.
Mike Wood said
"Another modern option for my case is the availability of small lightweight Japanese alternators by Denso"
I have one on the BSA and it's proved to be very good. Driven directly off the crankshaft it puts the ignition light out on tick-over and keeps the battery in good fettle and has a built in rectifier/regulator. Including the transfer plate it's about half the size of the dynamo it replaced but it's too obviously modern to pass muster under a scrutiniser's beady eye.
