electric versus combustion cars

[JonE]

This was from 2015 and something to do with Ricardo Low carbon Vehicle Partnership. link below the image.
Any ideas what the current grid electric efficiency is in relation to the 500g quoted? and anyone got anything more recent than this which considers the lengthened use of older cars versus new manufacture? 
  Screenshot 2021-10-08 at 09.54.42.png (Size: 52.89 KB / Downloads: 692)



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...PdRN1SjKTZ

[andrew34ruby]

It certainly seems that electric cars are not really the answer. Smaller cars, driven half the distance, seem to come out far better.

[Chris KC]

Any strategy which proposes scrapping existing vehicles and buying new is more about sales than it is about the environment. 

The cleanliness of electric power is inseparable from the means of generation - Norway - hydroelectric is pretty clean. Eastern europe - coal fired - baaad.

And yes, a 2-tonne car is not only wholly unnecessary but massively less fuel efficient than, say, a 500kg car.

[Mark Dymond]

For the genuinely interested the full 2020 report is available online
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/eu-action/tra...en#tab-0-1
Its 400+ pages which reflects the complexity of the topic. To me, it makes no mind. If manufactures can make electric cars as cheap or cheaper than the petrol equivalent they will fly out of the show rooms as quickly as they can make them. Good thing too as we can then tweak emission profile by changing how much we are prepared to pay for the energy.

[Bruce Nicholls]

Here in Milford Haven we now have an operational Hydrogen refuelling station on the quayside car park opposite our mooring. This is actively converting water to hydrogen and storing it for use in the so far almost none existent fuel cell electric car. They did magic up 2 for the opening this week, however I am not expecting to see any more in the near future. The tech is good for cars as you no longer have to lug a car full of heavy batteries around and refuelling is quick, much like LPG (which now seems to be dying). Currently to me this is looking like the Betamax of car fuels. Better but ignored by the majority of big manufacturers.

https://www.mhpa.co.uk/milford-haven-energy-kingdom/

https://www.pembrokeshire.gov.uk/mh2-ene...onstrators

[Mike Costigan]

It looks like Japan, at least, is favouring the hydrogen car over the electric car, so the rest of the world may yet follow:

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintellige...el%20Cells.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/The-Bi...n-hydrogen

[Bruce Nicholls]

Apparently Ireland has some busses running on hydrogen, so they could pop over on the ferry for a top up.

[Hedd_Jones]

I have thought for some time that the current 'EV' is a stepping stone. Even a fast charge could be very inconvenient.

I think hydrogen will be the future. As you just top up like you do with hydrocarbons and off you go again. And much of the mechanicals are straight from the EV parts book..

The charge time isnt really a problem with cars, with life as present we would easy survive here with overnight charging, but the charge time is seen as a problem by the public. What may be more of an issue is if you live in a block of flats or in a terrace house is where you can actually charge it?. Or rather charge it cheaply at night. Daytime charging will become more expensive. Anyway I digress.

Charging is certainly an issue with commercial vehicles/buses etc. They don't earn money sat round charging up. And they do big miles every day. Thats the main reason I see battery electric being a dead end.

I had a hybrid on hire for my last week with my previous employer. No a plug in hybrid, a hybrid. If you drove like miss daisy it was leccy, put your foot down the engine kicked in. it went like a rocket. When I finished with it, it had 45quids worth of fuel to refill, but I had done over 700 miles. I was impressed. it was Korean.

[circeonya@hotmail.com]

My limited understanding of hydrogen tells me that there is considerable greenhouse gas involved in the production. If so what is the point? I have owned a few cars that ran on LPG some dedicated, some dual fuel - saved heaps of money on fuel and the engines seemed to last forever. Now it seems some methods of hydrogen production use gas, if that is the case another whole step is involved, so again what is the point?

[andrew34ruby]

My limited understanding of hydrogen tells me that there is considerable greenhouse gas involved in the production.  If so what is the point?  I have owned a few cars that ran on LPG some dedicated, some dual fuel - saved heaps of money on fuel and the engines seemed to last forever.  Now it seems some methods of hydrogen production use gas,  if that is the case another whole step is involved, so again what is the point?

The point of using hydrogen is quick fuelling, no batteries, and the source of the energy is electricity (electrolysis of water). The advantage of electricity is that it can come from nuclear, wind, sun, or from oil, coal etc.