03-08-2021, 01:36 AM
OK, this might turn into a long rant...
Most people will know I have been building my Austin 7 Special for the last 10 years. In that time I have been lucky to meet so many people who have taught me how to do things or helped me with information, advice and even parts so I could build a close to a period correct special as I could get. I am very thankful to all of them, some of whom aren't with us anymore. It's finally come time to try to get the car road registered so I can drive the thing. It's not 100% finished (are specials ever?) but it's ready to be driven.
Only it seems the entire system is set up to prevent that these days and I am almost at the point of saying why bother? Certainly I am thinking after I finish my Riley Brooklands replica, which it's looking like I can never register if built to be period correct (it will probably be an unregistered race car or sold overseas), what's the point in continuing to learn these skills if you can never use them.
The main issue with my special is it has no paperwork. When I first started 10 years ago that wasn't so much of a problem. But in that time the rules have changed, several times it seems, and it's at the point now where it seems no one really knows what the rules are where vintage cars are concerned and no one can offer decent advice. Everything pushes you into the LVVTA certification route. In NZ that is a small group of people who inspect non standard cars and basically say if the car can be registered or not. Mainly things like hot rods, race cars and boy racer type mods. I was trying to avoid that path if possible.
I had gone through the Vintage Car Club here as I am a member and they did come inspect the car and I got the right paperwork to say the car was period correct. This is the 'VCC Date of Manufacture & Authenticity Statement'. They call this the DOMAS. I also got the right documents to say the car has no paperwork and had those witnessed by a JP as you have to do.
That should help me get the car on the road as per these statements:
When I went to talk to the testing station they don't known anything about that at all and said I need to fill in another form, a CA03, which is one that says there is no paper trail for the vehicle. There is no mention of this form anywhere else on the NZTA web site as far as I can find apart from the form itself. The form does say it costs $184NZ an hour to process your application and they don't say how long it takes. I guess if they say no then you're basically screwed, that car can never be on the road.
Before filling that in I asked for advice from someone in the club who is very knowledgeable about how all of this works. I was hoping he could advice on how to fill in the CA03 application. He reviewed my forms for me and pointed out an error on my DOMAS form so now apparently the forms will be re-issued and these will now say I do have to now go though LVVTA. He said the car might now need seatbelts? The NZTA website says:
Exceptions for older vehicles
If your vehicle was manufactured before 1990 it may be excluded from many of the standards requirements. However, your vehicle must still meet the general safety requirements in the Land Transport Rules, and it must have at least front seat passenger safety belts if manufactured after 1955.
A historic vehicle must meet the safety requirements applying at the time it was manufactured. Contact the Vintage Car Club of New Zealand(external link) to find out more.
So now as far as I can tell it comes down to the individual LVVTA certifier as to how they decide to interpret that rule. And the problem is they then start looking at ALL the LVVTA rules as set out in the handbook. This is the New Zealand Car Constructors manual (https://www.lvvta.org.nz/shop/new-zealan...l-version/). The handbook is very good if you are building a hot rod or a modern race car or modding a vehicle. If it's vintage, you're probably screwed. It has all sorts of things in it vintage cars have trouble meeting such as:
![[Image: 20210802182933-212f4365.jpg]](http://www.asciimation.co.nz/photos/upload/2021/08/02/20210802182933-212f4365.jpg)
So now I need to either make a steel floor or weld supports to the chassis rails. That opens another can of worms. Then if they start looking at fasteners you're really screwed, pardon the pun. Depending on how the individual certifier looks at the rules you might now need to use all metric or modern UNC/UNF fasteners in the thing. Oh, and I still don't know how to fill in the CA03.
So how do you find a certifier who understands vintage cars, understands the DOMAS and what paper work is needed and can access the car realistically based on what it is? No idea and I am not even sure it's possible. There is a list of them on the LVVTA website. There are about 40 in NZ. They are responsible for all low volume certifications in NZ including any modified vehicles so they are kind of busy. The only way to find someone is to individually ring them and chat to them. I tried a few months ago, the nearest one started ranting to me about how the vintage car people had made the process so much more difficult for the hot rodders! So he's probably not sympathetic. You do hear stories about 'so and so' out the back of somewhere who is good but by the time you hear that the information is years out of date. Are there even any who know about vintage cars now?
When even the experts can't really offer concrete advice what do you do? I guess I just now have to wait for the new documents and start ringing around again. Of course all of this costs time and a not inconsiderable amount of money. Fees to the certifiers, fees to LTNZ, the cost of transporting cars to places to be inspected (and back and forth if they find things you have to fix). And once you go to one the car is 'in the system' so if they say no, again you're screwed.
My advice for someone wanting to build a vintage car in NZ now would be don't bother. Or at least start with a registered, road legal car and modify it. That way you can bypass all these rules and no one really cares. Of course that's what all us old car people hate, destroying a perfectly good car to make a special, but it seems now, in NZ at least, that's the best way to do it. If you try to do it from scratch following the rule book you can't end up with a period correct special.
It's just really frustrating when you try to build something well and do everything right and the system just makes it impossible. And they are making it harder all the time. After the Riley I don't think I'll bother with coach building vintage cars anymore. I'll stick to restoring things (so much easier anyway) or maybe build something modern. At least the Riley has some value in it. An Austin 7, not so much. Maybe I can find a standard car that needs restoring and put the good restored running gear I have in that and scrap (or sell) the special body. Or just hang it on the wall of my shed. That might actually be cheaper than trying to get the special on the road. As I said in the subject maybe the time of special building is now nearly at an end?
If anyone in NZ knows of a good certifier in the Wellington region let me know. Actually if someone knows a good one who knows vintage cars anywhere in NZ let me know. It might be worth transporting the car to them.
Rant over.
Simon
Most people will know I have been building my Austin 7 Special for the last 10 years. In that time I have been lucky to meet so many people who have taught me how to do things or helped me with information, advice and even parts so I could build a close to a period correct special as I could get. I am very thankful to all of them, some of whom aren't with us anymore. It's finally come time to try to get the car road registered so I can drive the thing. It's not 100% finished (are specials ever?) but it's ready to be driven.
Only it seems the entire system is set up to prevent that these days and I am almost at the point of saying why bother? Certainly I am thinking after I finish my Riley Brooklands replica, which it's looking like I can never register if built to be period correct (it will probably be an unregistered race car or sold overseas), what's the point in continuing to learn these skills if you can never use them.
The main issue with my special is it has no paperwork. When I first started 10 years ago that wasn't so much of a problem. But in that time the rules have changed, several times it seems, and it's at the point now where it seems no one really knows what the rules are where vintage cars are concerned and no one can offer decent advice. Everything pushes you into the LVVTA certification route. In NZ that is a small group of people who inspect non standard cars and basically say if the car can be registered or not. Mainly things like hot rods, race cars and boy racer type mods. I was trying to avoid that path if possible.
I had gone through the Vintage Car Club here as I am a member and they did come inspect the car and I got the right paperwork to say the car was period correct. This is the 'VCC Date of Manufacture & Authenticity Statement'. They call this the DOMAS. I also got the right documents to say the car has no paperwork and had those witnessed by a JP as you have to do.
That should help me get the car on the road as per these statements:
Quote:5.6 The VCC Date of Manufacture & Authenticity Statement may be used by a Transport Service Delivery Agent (WOF Agent) and a Certifier on behalf of the NZ Transport Agency (formerly Land Transport NZ and previously LTSA), to classify a vehicle’s date of manufacture and authenticity.
5.7 The VCC Date of Manufacture & Authenticity Statement has provision on the form to advise a Certifier if the vehicle is modified in any area that may affect a vehicle Safety Standard and suggests the vehicle be certified using the Low Volume Vehicle Code.
When I went to talk to the testing station they don't known anything about that at all and said I need to fill in another form, a CA03, which is one that says there is no paper trail for the vehicle. There is no mention of this form anywhere else on the NZTA web site as far as I can find apart from the form itself. The form does say it costs $184NZ an hour to process your application and they don't say how long it takes. I guess if they say no then you're basically screwed, that car can never be on the road.
Before filling that in I asked for advice from someone in the club who is very knowledgeable about how all of this works. I was hoping he could advice on how to fill in the CA03 application. He reviewed my forms for me and pointed out an error on my DOMAS form so now apparently the forms will be re-issued and these will now say I do have to now go though LVVTA. He said the car might now need seatbelts? The NZTA website says:
Exceptions for older vehicles
If your vehicle was manufactured before 1990 it may be excluded from many of the standards requirements. However, your vehicle must still meet the general safety requirements in the Land Transport Rules, and it must have at least front seat passenger safety belts if manufactured after 1955.
A historic vehicle must meet the safety requirements applying at the time it was manufactured. Contact the Vintage Car Club of New Zealand(external link) to find out more.
So now as far as I can tell it comes down to the individual LVVTA certifier as to how they decide to interpret that rule. And the problem is they then start looking at ALL the LVVTA rules as set out in the handbook. This is the New Zealand Car Constructors manual (https://www.lvvta.org.nz/shop/new-zealan...l-version/). The handbook is very good if you are building a hot rod or a modern race car or modding a vehicle. If it's vintage, you're probably screwed. It has all sorts of things in it vintage cars have trouble meeting such as:
So now I need to either make a steel floor or weld supports to the chassis rails. That opens another can of worms. Then if they start looking at fasteners you're really screwed, pardon the pun. Depending on how the individual certifier looks at the rules you might now need to use all metric or modern UNC/UNF fasteners in the thing. Oh, and I still don't know how to fill in the CA03.
So how do you find a certifier who understands vintage cars, understands the DOMAS and what paper work is needed and can access the car realistically based on what it is? No idea and I am not even sure it's possible. There is a list of them on the LVVTA website. There are about 40 in NZ. They are responsible for all low volume certifications in NZ including any modified vehicles so they are kind of busy. The only way to find someone is to individually ring them and chat to them. I tried a few months ago, the nearest one started ranting to me about how the vintage car people had made the process so much more difficult for the hot rodders! So he's probably not sympathetic. You do hear stories about 'so and so' out the back of somewhere who is good but by the time you hear that the information is years out of date. Are there even any who know about vintage cars now?
When even the experts can't really offer concrete advice what do you do? I guess I just now have to wait for the new documents and start ringing around again. Of course all of this costs time and a not inconsiderable amount of money. Fees to the certifiers, fees to LTNZ, the cost of transporting cars to places to be inspected (and back and forth if they find things you have to fix). And once you go to one the car is 'in the system' so if they say no, again you're screwed.
My advice for someone wanting to build a vintage car in NZ now would be don't bother. Or at least start with a registered, road legal car and modify it. That way you can bypass all these rules and no one really cares. Of course that's what all us old car people hate, destroying a perfectly good car to make a special, but it seems now, in NZ at least, that's the best way to do it. If you try to do it from scratch following the rule book you can't end up with a period correct special.
It's just really frustrating when you try to build something well and do everything right and the system just makes it impossible. And they are making it harder all the time. After the Riley I don't think I'll bother with coach building vintage cars anymore. I'll stick to restoring things (so much easier anyway) or maybe build something modern. At least the Riley has some value in it. An Austin 7, not so much. Maybe I can find a standard car that needs restoring and put the good restored running gear I have in that and scrap (or sell) the special body. Or just hang it on the wall of my shed. That might actually be cheaper than trying to get the special on the road. As I said in the subject maybe the time of special building is now nearly at an end?
If anyone in NZ knows of a good certifier in the Wellington region let me know. Actually if someone knows a good one who knows vintage cars anywhere in NZ let me know. It might be worth transporting the car to them.
Rant over.
Simon
