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Diktat from MUK
#11
As organiser of the Cumbria and Pennine Runs I am taking a keen interest in this thread.  It could make my life very much easier if all I need to do is inform 30 A7 owners by email to gather at Grange over Sands on a date to be arranged next May!
As it is I apply for a Cert of Exemption through the PWA7C.   I had a minor bollocking a couple of years ago when I submitted the Pennine Run route to the Route Liaison officers using extracts of a 3 miles to the inch atlas.  They insisted that the route had to be on a 1: 50,000 (1 1/4" to 1 mile) format.  With a two day run of 300 miles that would involve something like a roll of wallpaper.  Their argument was that they needed to see the most minute details of the route.   Fair comment, but the route is only a guide, entrants can alter it as they see fit.  I pointed out to the RLO's that the route instructions could easily be condensed to a list of villages or towns to pass through, in which case I could not provide a definitive route for every entrant.  In extremis the route could be simply a start and finish with suggested coffee and lunch stops, how easy would that be?  What annoys me is the fact that over a thousand mountain bikers can descend on the village which I live in and race on the public roads ( they don't call it a race but it is timed, rather like the TT races) without any apparent regulation or PR work, then there are the convoys of tractors often carrying extra passengers, or driven by kids.
The Cumbria Run will go ahead next May one way or another!
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#12
Mike

Whatever the website might still say, this is the edict from MUK;

"Competitiors Minimum Accepable Licenses for 2020

In addition, the previously mentioned free of charge RS Clubman licence will now replace the Non-Race Clubman licence. This is intended both to introduce a fairer system and to encourage participation at grass roots level by removing a barrier to entry, and shifting the payment from the licence to the permits as we adjust the fees to place more emphasis on pay-as-you-play. Competitors and passengers previously using their local club membership card alone will now need the new RS Clubman Licence along with their local club membership card. This only applies to Motorsport UK grass roots events run on a Clubman permit. The new free RS Clubman licence will include the improved insurance cover for 2020. If you organise Clubman status Autotests, Trials, Road Rallies and Cross Country events it is essential that you advise your members of this change. We have included an email communication and we would be obliged if you could forward this to your members."

Underlining by me, spelling errors from Colnbrook.
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#13
OK, that's pretty clear: it says licences will be required for Clubman status events. Exempt from Permit events are not  Clubman events, so this ruling should not affect the majority of road runs and static events. It is still a worrying development for competitive rallies, driving tests and trials, where passengers could quite easily be non-drivers. As for their declaration that this will encourage participation in grass-roots events, what a load of cobblers! I haven't held a competition licence for years, and have no plans to apply for one now, but that wouldn't have stopped me accepting an offer to drive a car in the Dave Wilcox Trial, for example... but that will now be denied me. As Tony says, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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#14
This does seem strange, I do hold a Competition licence -annual cost north of £100 last year: I'm sure that the 2020 renewal will go down now we have these  new"low cost" regulations Rolleyes

 I have always understood that an MSA/MUK affiliated club membership card was all that is needed for closed i.e. organising club membership only non-speed events like production car  trials autotests etc. - in other words, the real grass roots of motorsport in the UK.

The MUK blurb seems to say that these "membership only" events have had/will have  "clubman" status which AFAIK needed a Clubman licence, certainly that was one option on the MSA/MUK paperwork when I renewed my National "A" licence last year.
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#15
I am possibly being naive but surely any event without any element of competition cannot regard its participants as "Competitors", therefore they would not require a "competitors licence"?? It seems to me that MSA/MUK are attempting to assume control of things that do not properly fall within their sphere of influence? I would add that motoring without a competitive element is not Motorsport.
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#16
750 Motor Club - Tunbridge Wells Centre trials (Cold Turkey, Stoneacre, etc.) are licenced by the MSUK as 'Clubman' events. The MSUK licence form states (my underlining and italics):

REMEMBER TO ENCLOSE YOUR SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS AND ENTRY FORM  
* SRs need not be enclosed for Certificate of Exemptions, Cross Country Driving Tests or those Clubman events which are marked with an asterisk, unless part of a Regional Association Championship (D4.5.4).
TRIALS
☐Sporting*
☐Car*
☐Classic*

Our trials are run in the 'car' category
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#17
So does that mean we need the licence or not? Much confusion!

It seems that under 18 passengers / bouncers don't need one so that's at least one form less to fill. Although I guess will have to get one done when he turns 14 for next years trials.
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#18
Does MUK allow women to enter "ClubMAN" events?
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#19
On a lighter note:-
Muk is a Poison type Pokémon introduced in Generation 1 . It is known as the Sludge Pokémon .
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#20
(08-11-2019, 12:51 PM)Barry Wrote: 750 Motor Club - Tunbridge Wells Centre trials (Cold Turkey, Stoneacre, etc.) are licenced by the MSUK as 'Clubman' events. The MSUK licence form states (my underlining and italics):

REMEMBER TO ENCLOSE YOUR SUPPLEMENTARY REGULATIONS AND ENTRY FORM  
* SRs need not be enclosed for Certificate of Exemptions, Cross Country Driving Tests or those Clubman events which are marked with an asterisk, unless part of a Regional Association Championship (D4.5.4).
TRIALS
☐Sporting*
☐Car*
☐Classic*

Our trials are run in the 'car' category

Curiouser and curiouser... from the paperwork quoted  in Barry's post. it would appear that a member entering a "Clubman" event; for example the Stoneacre trial, would currently need need a "Non Race Clubman" licence: so that'll be £29.00 thank you very much -see this year's licence application form below.

http://members.motorsportuk.org/uploaded...p_form.pdf

But AFAIK, they have always been run on the basis of having a club membership card, as per what was called a "closed" non speed event in the days when I was 750 Tunbridge Wells Centre trials secretary a very long time ago.
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