Kill switch

[Mark Atkinson]

Hello Eric,

I have attached a few pictures, all A7 variants, including the original Ulster which ran in the Mille Miglia. Having passed muster with the scrutineers, they are all cars which have run regularly in VSCC speed events, 
None of them appear to have the ugly red paddle switch. They do have clear and legable 'OFF" markings that direct direction of travel for the period switches to turn them off.
However the green Mille Miglia car does have an OFF sticker on the cars tunnel, (just by the helmet) which may indicate he has had to install somthing further, but, if so it is an interesting and perhaps appropriate position for your car

May I suggest that as a change of approach, you plan to ditch the modern paddle completely and use a period ignition switch located in a civilised position on the cars dash, one which is marked in a similar manner to these cars. I am not clear on how it works in the USA. But, here in the UK our system requires a log book for the car which includes pictures. These are signed off by a scrutineer. Perhaps if you have a similar system you could negotiate a period correct settup, similar to one pictured here, and by demonstrating the accepted and proven approach used by the VSCC gain support for your chosen settup.
Of course, it may depend on the speed environment in which you will operate the car, here with the VSCC we are fortunate to have a large body of marshals who understand these cars and how to recognise the critical off switches. However, some of our cars do utalise the red paddle switches, which may be indicative of concerns the owners have experienced when competing in none VSCC events.

Kind regards, Mark.

   
   
   

[Erich]

Hi Mark, is the Mille car the first photo? It looks blue to me. If so, I do have the period ignition switch on the dash and can put a sticker on the dash to indicate which way to turn it to off. I agree that the paddle switch doesn't look right, and also has the issue that a passenger can inadvertently turn it off, as I experienced once. I think there are two issues. One is that while the ignition switch will stop the engine, that still doesn't isolate the battery. The closer the switch is to the battery, the better, as it lessens the chance for an electrical fire. The other issue is accessibility. Some scrutineers here seem to want the switch accessible from outside the car. The photos are very helpful. The first car has a rear tunnel cover that is like the one I just replaced on my Replica. Which car is the green No. 20? I have a type 75/Speedy as well. Or is this the Ferguson Speedy that ran at Le Mans?


Erich in Seattle

[Douglas Alderson]

Hi Erich

One thing to note from Marks photos is some of the car look like road going cars.  I don't race in VSCC but for a vintage road cars in hill climbs the MSA / UK Motor Sport accept the ignition key / switch with a sticker showing the direction and don't require a separate kill switch.  The regs over here exceptions for vintage cars but are written more for modern cars and take a bit of re reading to see what is required.

The regs in the UK are

Period Defined Vehicles (Non-Rally) Historic Vehicles – Cars which are either original competition cars or cars built to exactly the same specification as models with national or international competition history complying with the rules of the period. 
A1 – (Veteran) Cars of a specification valid before 1 Jan 1905. 
B1 – (Edwardian) Cars of a specification valid between 1 Jan 1905 and 31 Dec 1918. 
C1 – (Vintage) Cars of a specification valid between 1 Jan 1919 and 31 Dec 1930. 
D1 – (Post Vintage Thoroughbred) Cars of a specification valid between 1 Jan 1931 and 31 Dec 1946. 
E1 – Cars of a specification valid between 1 Jan 1947 and 31 Dec 1961 (up to 31 Dec 1960 for single seater and two seater racing cars).

10.6.3. An external circuit breaker to K.8 is mandatory for all cars except open cars of periods A – E (Nomenclature and Definitions) and cars licensed for road use (when it is recommended).

People still fit them for safety etc but this does make it a bit complicated to work out what is / not required.  You may want to double check the regs you are racing under or have a chat with someone who is already racing in the championship you plan to race.

Mark can I use the photo of the dash badge on the blue car on my website...

[Erich]

Hi Douglas, thank you. It is rather complicated to know what is required and what is a good idea. I rather like the idea of a switch close to the battery. Also, something accessible on the outside of the car makes sense.

Erich in Seattle

[stuartu]

First I should make it clear that I fully agree with Mark's very sensible advice on this matter.

As a separate issue:
I don't think the blue Ulster is the actual ex Goodacre/Trevisan Mille Miglia car, unless someone has been keeping that information strictly secret, nor is it the car that Andy Storer used in the 2012 Mille Miglia "Re evocation". If it were, it wouldn't be blue and there would be a red paddle switch on the dashboard.

The green Speedy is Peter Butler's ex, Ferguson, ex Carr and Barbour Le Mans car. I think the picture must have been taken when Dave Wilcox was sprinting it with the VSCC. If you look carefully, you can see a paddle switch sticking up out of the floor, almost hidden by the handle of the extinguisher. That is why there is a "scrutineer's delight" sticker on the transmission tunnel next to it. The positioning of the sticker was suggested by the (British) scrutineer at Le Mans Classic. Evidently the VSCC scrutineer was also satisfied with its positioning. The little aluminium panel carries an ignition switch and supplementary switches for the lighting plus a rev counter. I remember this because I made the panel. No holes were drilled in Peter's car!

IMHO, the moral is that it is probably best to ask a local scrutineer what is favoured in the event you contemplate.

Regards,
Stuart

[spannerman]

I prefer safety than looks of switch if you think the red cutout switch is ugly then what about fire extinguisher ? Other thing I don't like is petrol pipes in car
Seen a car go up at a750MC meeting ! Not nice.

[Mark Atkinson]

Hello Eric,
              That will teach an A7 newbie like me to try and identify a car, I remember the chap with the green car telling me he had run it in a major historic event in Europe, then recalled the wrong one!

I overlooked something in my last post. I think you would be wise to avoid modifying the red paddle switch with a remote wire. It may just cause a problem with you officials, because doing so would effect the functionality of a universally recognised and understood piece of safety equipment, so it may not work when needed -  beware the law of unintended consequences.

Going back to my pictures, the single seater has a neat solution with a kill switch, but, not visible in the picture, some such cars have the location of such dash mounted masters marked on the cars external coaming directly above the switch, which is very clear to all. I always thought this a better solution than placing the switch deeper into the cars cockpit.

The funny thing is, sometimes when scrutineering, I would occasionally see cars at multiple events, but it would not fall to me to inspect them, then, when eventually they did, I would find that no visible kill switch or appropriate markings indicated the position or function. I would always ask the drivers to mark them up clearly before going on track, only to get a grummpy "no one else bothered about this before'!

Regards, Mark

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Mark can I use the photo of the dash badge on the blue car on my website...

Hello Douglas,
These are pictures taken by my little boy, I am sure he will be delighted for you to use his picture, so please do.

Regards, Mark.