Hi folks, can anyone assist please.
I have recently completed a full restoration of my early Ruby saloon and however having just completed my first one hundred miles I had an issue with a head gasket failure.
My restoration has been in two parts, the first of which was 30 years ago which included the engine rebuild and the second over the last 3 years to finish the body etc.
The head gasket failure is most likely due to my own incompetence, I cannot remember what torque I had originally tightened the head down to all those years ago but I know when I removed the head yesterday the nuts came away embarrassingly easily with very little effort using only a short spanner!
So with new gasket and a modern torque wrench I set about replacing the old gasket.
However having removed the head I was surprised with what I found especially as the engine rebuild was complete with re-sleeve back to original size new pistons, rods, bearing etc.
The attached picture shows areas of the pistons that are coated with a black sticky goo which could be removed with a bit of effort and some paraffin. I have never come across anything like this before, interestingly, I contacted a local garage man who deals with older cars and he told me he had another Ruby in with exactly the same problem. He put it down to modern fuel but I am not convinced.
If anyone can shed any light I would be most grateful
Best regards to one and all Denis Sweeney
(18-01-2019, 04:41 PM)Denis Sweeney Wrote: Hi folks, can anyone assist please.
I have recently completed a full restoration of my early Ruby saloon and however having just completed my first one hundred miles I had an issue with a head gasket failure.
My restoration has been in two parts, the first of which was 30 years ago which included the engine rebuild and the second over the last 3 years to finish the body etc.
The head gasket failure is most likely due to my own incompetence, I cannot remember what torque I had originally tightened the head down to all those years ago but I know when I removed the head yesterday the nuts came away embarrassingly easily with very little effort using only a short spanner!
So with new gasket and a modern torque wrench I set about replacing the old gasket.
However having removed the head I was surprised with what I found especially as the engine rebuild was complete with re-sleeve back to original size new pistons, rods, bearing etc.
The attached picture shows areas of the pistons that are coated with a black sticky goo which could be removed with a bit of effort and some paraffin. I have never come across anything like this before, interestingly, I contacted a local garage man who deals with older cars and he told me he had another Ruby in with exactly the same problem. He put it down to modern fuel but I am not convinced.
If anyone can shed any light I would be most grateful
Best regards to one and all Denis Sweeney
I have seen similar, but I don't know how much modern petrol has to do with it. I say don't worry; just get the joint surfaces decently clean with no carbon ridge around where the gasket fits, grease both sides of the gasket, and fit it. If it's reluctant to go down the studs use the head to push it down, then fit the nuts, tightening gradually in the standard order. I use 25 ft lbs, but I think some people use a lower figure. After each shortish run which gets the engine properly hot, retighten. After four or five tightenings you will find the nuts don't go any further, but if you don't go through the repeats you are likely to have the same trouble again. This has been the case since asbestos was banned; the new material behaves differently.
Good luck!
Robert Leigh
Done a rebuilt on a lot of old engine in my lifetime and going by the deposit I think the engine needs 500 miles on it before saying its has a fault ? Replace head and run !
Let the engine rev but try not to let it labor as the deposit looks like oil and water mix
To me , the piston rings will need some more miles so they bed in not wear in?
That's why you Need to keep the revs up but not laboring ! I think after a few miles more it be OK
My problem I ask questions that other people don't like?
Like have you got that for an investment or for fun?
(18-01-2019, 08:21 PM)spannerman Wrote: Done a rebuilt on a lot of old engine in my lifetime and going by the deposit I think the engine needs 500 miles on it before saying its has a fault ? Replace head and run !
Let the engine rev but try not to let it labor as the deposit looks like oil and water mix
To me , the piston rings will need some more miles so they bed in not wear in?
That's why you Need to keep the revs up but not laboring ! I think after a few miles more it be OK
Thanks to all for the responses, I have cleaned up all the deposits and as noted it was very sticky but has cleaned off just leaving some staining.
I have now replaced the head with a new gasket and followed the extensive comments on this forum regarding torque settings and methodology, something I should have done before driving her!
But it was the cause of the deposits that was the concern, your comments here regarding the oil are similar to my brothers view that it could be oil.
But we both agreed that the forum would be a good place to canvas views.
As this is my first venture at driving my Ruby I find it difficult to push her too hard, but brother says like yourself, I need to give her a bit more wellie.
I have managed to get her up to around 40mph (on the clock) but generally it has been just running around locally.
She sounds amazingly smooth.
Thanks again appreciate the comment.
If it sounds remarkably smooth check the spark timing! Lotsa posts on, but do not use more than necessary for full actual pulling performance, not as judged by noise. (With new close clearance mains and original c.r can be reasonably smooth)
I always because that's what I was taught over 50 years ago with cast iron heads. To re check to torque of the head studs after a run whilst the head and engine is still hot and if required tighten to original tightness. It's different however with alli heads they need to be checked after a run but when the engine and head have cooled and are cold.
John Mason
Would you believe it "Her who must be obeyed" refers to my Ruby as the toy.
Denis, when doing forensic inspection on engines with an internal water leak, the clean bores are the ones that had water intrusion. The black deposits are probably from oil & fuel. Not too out of the ordinary for a first startup after an overhaul. Depending on the honing and ring material, bedding in can be very quick or exceedingly slow. Chrome rings in smooth finished bores can take forever. I'm assuming de rigueur for these engine's is cast iron rings. They are comparatively soft and should seat rapidly. Assembly oil (or really old assembly oil) can also create some carbon and varnish. If it's not smoking and, is making power, I'd have at it. Check your plugs in a bit for signs of oiling. Make sure that enough water didn't make it into the oil to ruin your day. A leak-down compression test would tell all. The shade tree version is to gut a spark plug, weld a fitting to it, bring a cylinder to TDC/valves closed, pressurize the cylinder with air and listen. Air may be heard leaking through the intake, exhaust, oil fill or radiator. This points to your issue (valves, rings, water leak, etc). The engine may "run" on air and move if the the piston is pushed down the bore, be careful (it won't come up against the air, it's not going far). You want things to stay at TDC long enough to listen. I'd wager that all 4 bores would have been similarly oiled and I'm not surprised considering the 30 year hiatus. The water cleaned some up nicely for you. Let's hope you don't have to see the insides again for a long while. Mike
I had always assumed that oil passing the rings and getting into a cylinder would be completely burned. However I once had to lift the head off an engine that had only done 50 miles after a rebuild, for reasons not relevant here.
The appearance was very similar to your photos, with sticky black deposits. I suspect that some oil and the heavier fractions of fuel soaks into the carbon deposits on the piston crown etc and the heatsink effect of the metal means that it never quite gets hot enough to burn off. This would be exacerbated by gentle usage during the running in period. The plug electrodes and exhaust valve heads run rather hotter and less prone to this.
If it's any consolation that same engine has now gone on to cover 10,000 trouble free miles, with oil consumption steadily falling as the rings bedded in. The ring bedding took some considerable mileage, and with hindsight I would have stuck to running in oil for rather longer before switching to an ordinary type. As others have recommended in the past, once run in get your engine properly hot and go for a good long fast run from time to time rather than always pootling !
