Odd noise

[Steve kay]

Having improved the performance and reduced the noise of the Ruby with an engine rebuild by Steve Flake, I decided to further enhance the quiet running with an Andy Bird gearbox. Engine out, old noisy gearbox despatched by courier, new gearbox offered up. A word of thanks here to those on the forum suggesting such an obvious and easy way of making gearbox/engine mating so much easier, temporary longer bolts instead of  the top two studs, why didn't I know that twenty years ago.

Gearbox in situ, turn  over to check OK. Oh dear, definitely not OK as there was a graunching sort of sound a couple of times each revolution. Gearbox off, noise still present. Difficult to believe that the sound was present before engine removal from the car, but a sound in a quiet workshop might have been hidden in the car. Discuss with a couple of stalwart motorists, all puzzled. Drag a passing Ruby owner into the workshop, said he'd never heard anything like it. Offer up feelers and cardboard whilst revolving to see if the flywheel teeth were rubbing but no evidence. Then decided to try another diagnosis, and turned the engine upside down. This time no sound, and whilst turning it back again turned it over whilst nose up in the air, no sound this way either. However nothing fell out whilst it was inverted suggesting that there had been a temporary fouling of flywheel or clutch, and when back the usual way up we have the slight graunching twice a turn again.

It would be wonderful if any forum folk were able to say, oh yes, happens dozens of times dead easy...... the again there might be a chorus of sorry old chap, flywheel off.

   
In case it is relevant, this picture shows the slight but noticeable chewed up teeth, a bit surprising on quite a new ring.

[Spex]

Have you lost a nut in there- Peter

[Steve kay]

Have you lost a nut in there- Peter

That was my initial suspicion, which is why Iturned the engine upside down, in the hope that a lost nut might fall out, or be helped out by turning the engine and thus flywheel. However nothing has come out. That might be total sod's law, something drops in but won't drop out. Still puzzling if the noise only occurs when the engine is "right way up" not at other positions.

[Steve Jones]

When I had something similar, back in 2005, it was the oiler tube from the release bearing that had found it's way to somewhere it shouldn't. Easy to check but could be anything in there. Came out, dramatically, at maximum revs 2/3 of the way up Drumhouse. Took the end off the brass blanking plug at the end of the oil gallery and fired oil pretty much everywhere. Luckily, it was our last hill!! Yes, things can get in but not get out. Sorry old chap, flywheel off!!

   

Steve

[Tony Press]

Having improved the performance and reduced the noise of the Ruby with an engine rebuild by Steve Flake, I decided to further enhance the quiet running with an Andy Bird gearbox. Engine out, old noisy gearbox despatched by courier, new gearbox offered up. A word of thanks here to those on the forum suggesting such an obvious and easy way of making gearbox/engine mating so much easier, temporary longer bolts instead of  the top two studs, why didn't I know that twenty years ago.

Gearbox in situ, turn  over to check OK. Oh dear, definitely not OK as there was a graunching sort of sound a couple of times each revolution. Gearbox off, noise still present. Difficult to believe that the sound was present before engine removal from the car, but a sound in a quiet workshop might have been hidden in the car. Discuss with a couple of stalwart motorists, all puzzled. Drag a passing Ruby owner into the workshop, said he'd never heard anything like it. Offer up feelers and cardboard whilst revolving to see if the flywheel teeth were rubbing but no evidence. Then decided to try another diagnosis, and turned the engine upside down. This time no sound, and whilst turning it back again turned it over whilst nose up in the air, no sound this way either. However nothing fell out whilst it was inverted suggesting that there had been a temporary fouling of flywheel or clutch, and when back the usual way up we have the slight graunching twice a turn again.

It would be wonderful if any forum folk were able to say, oh yes, happens dozens of times dead easy...... the again there might be a chorus of sorry old chap, flywheel off.


In case it is relevant, this picture shows the slight but noticeable chewed up teeth, a bit surprising on quite a new ring.

Are the ring gear teeth damaged all the way around ?

[Steve kay]

Yes the ring teeth are damaged all the way round, giving an early suspicion about a possible cause of the noise. However first using paper and then thin card between the ring and the housing it was evident that there was still clearance between them.

[Tony Press]

Yes the ring teeth are damaged all the way round, giving an early suspicion about a possible cause of the noise. However first using paper and then thin card between the ring and the housing it was evident that there was still clearance between them.

Were these ring gear teeth marks there when it was first fitted ?

As far as I know the only reason the ring gear teeth can get damaged is during starter motor engagement - which is usually only at high compression points - not evenly spaceed all the way around on all teeth- besides aren't they damaged on the wrong side of the teeth for starter motor engagement wear.

The ring gear is not clipping the rear sump bolt is it - with a bit of end float in the shaft moving it clear when the motor is tipped over ?

Seems unlikely but worth checking.

[Zetomagneto]

Having improved the performance and reduced the noise of the Ruby with an engine rebuild by Steve Flake, I decided to further enhance the quiet running with an Andy Bird gearbox. Engine out, old noisy gearbox despatched by courier, new gearbox offered up. A word of thanks here to those on the forum suggesting such an obvious and easy way of making gearbox/engine mating so much easier, temporary longer bolts instead of  the top two studs, why didn't I know that twenty years ago.

Gearbox in situ, turn  over to check OK. Oh dear, definitely not OK as there was a graunching sort of sound a couple of times each revolution. Gearbox off, noise still present. Difficult to believe that the sound was present before engine removal from the car, but a sound in a quiet workshop might have been hidden in the car. Discuss with a couple of stalwart motorists, all puzzled. Drag a passing Ruby owner into the workshop, said he'd never heard anything like it. Offer up feelers and cardboard whilst revolving to see if the flywheel teeth were rubbing but no evidence. Then decided to try another diagnosis, and turned the engine upside down. This time no sound, and whilst turning it back again turned it over whilst nose up in the air, no sound this way either. However nothing fell out whilst it was inverted suggesting that there had been a temporary fouling of flywheel or clutch, and when back the usual way up we have the slight graunching twice a turn again.

It would be wonderful if any forum folk were able to say, oh yes, happens dozens of times dead easy...... the again there might be a chorus of sorry old chap, flywheel off.


In case it is relevant, this picture shows the slight but noticeable chewed up teeth, a bit surprising on quite a new ring.

Probably not relevant to the noise, but the clutch cover/pressure plate has a gap between it and the flywheel, is it spaced off, or are the 6 bolts not fully tightened.

[John Mason]

Have you taken the starter motor off and then with a stiff piece of wire shaped at a right angle scraped out behind the flywheel just in case there is a foreign body there. Also whilst the starter is off start your engine on the handle and see if the noise is still there.

John Mason.

[Steve kay]

What a wonderful team you are! I was wondering whether to put on freshly ironed shirt and tie and go to the chapel for hymn singing, or go to the pub to listen to detailed descriptions of a certain sporting victory in Cardiff yesterday. Then I glanced at the forum, and scarcely pausing to put on overalls rushed to the workshop and loosed off the two sump bolts imediately below the flywheel. Silence, not a sound. So the marginal protrusion of those two bolts and a very  slight eccentricity of the toothed ring meant that little interference. Many thanks to all, and especially Tony Press for such valuable help.