Wheel studs CAUTION

[Dennis Nicholas]

Hi Dennis,
the previous replys  are correct regarding having a radius on a one piece stud as that is the weakest point , But the reason your two piece failed is what ever means the Factory used to fix the stud and flange together failed and allowed the stud to pull through the flange  nothing do with a radius .

Colin
NZ

Yep. looks like it was a failure in the weld-in-place procedure. (metal is in contact with another metal and the earth is connected to one and live to the other and quick squirt of 'lectric welds them.......this was how the shipyards used to put fixing studs onto superstructure for brackets etc.)

[Robert Foreman]

All the hub carriers that I have dealt with over the years have had one piece studs as per the drawing posted earlier  
  Your stud has pulled through the flanged part and gives the impression that it was welded, it has not.

[Ian Williams]

I agree with Robert on this one, I have also seen a lot of hub carriers and I have yet to come across one with studs made from two parts.

[Dennis Nicholas]

A bit (little)more progress.  I tried the new stud and rivets to make sure all holes would line up..........oh tissssh......the rivets were too thick to go into the flange holes.  How to make them thiner? I did not want to hammer them all the way as that would just scrape up a small collar that would prevent the countersunk head from fitting nicely in the flange countersink and would probably bend the rivets anyway.  I hammered the end of the rivet into the flange till the end was just flush with the other side.......this was so that the rivet was held tight.........then a thin strip of fine emery was used back and forth all round under the head to make the shaft thinner.  The rivet was punched out and the end with the graunched up collar was dressed with a file to remove the collar. Once the rivet was a tightish fit it was pushed right into the flange and it was seen that the countersunk head did not fit properly into the countersunk flange hole and anyway the diameter of the rivet head was larger than the surface diameter of the flange hole.....rivet in drill and filed to reduce head dia.  Rivet back into flange and underside supported on vice and head was hammered in to conform to the countersunk hole.
Flange put onto hub and about 4mm of rivet sticking out.  I squashed the rivet in the vice by a fair bit then with rivet head resting on vice jaws and overhang supported on blocks off bench the hub flange was made parallel to vice jaws.  I used a fairly thin sharp centre punch to punch the end of the rivet (because end of rivet so near the stud a thick centre punch can't be used otherwise even the small amount protruding tends to get bent towards the stud.).  after a few blows to satisfy myself that rivet was fully tightened I further squashed the rivet in the jaws and then with much patience filed off till flush with the hub flange surface.  I am rather miffed at having to go through all that with new parts.  
I should point out that with the hydraulic brake conversion the stud flange only just clears the end of the cylinder so the rivet heads must not be allowed to protrude above the stud flange head...........quick spray of etch primer on new stud flange/rivet heads..........and so to bed said Z.
Hopefully will just have to give quick squirt of engine enamel over primer tomorrow and will be able to fit both hubs without any further bothers. 

I suppose I could put a shim between bearing and axle shoulder to just move hub outwards and allow a bit more clearance between stud flange and cylinder....(the brake drum outer edge would be moved nearer to the edge of the brake lining but it is about1/8" away so plenty of room for adjustment.....but now rivet head is more or less flush I don't think it will be necessary.......has previously run many thousands of miles, so unless new cylinders are just that bigger all should be well.......maybe.......possibly......soon see tomorrow.

[mk1-mark]

Wouldn't it be sensible to drill the holes in the hub & studs to accept the slightly larger (presumably metric) rivet?  Surely all these rivets do is hold the stud in position, they are hardly "safety critical".  The main clamping force is applied when the wheel nuts are done up.

[Dennis Nicholas]

Wouldn't it be sensible to drill the holes in the hub & studs to accept the slightly larger (presumably metric) rivet?  Surely all these rivets do is hold the stud in position, they are hardly "safety critical".  The main clamping force is applied when the wheel nuts are done up.

Yes all understood but I don't like doing a non reversible mod like drilling out holes in such places.(hubs).....I did in fact ease out the holes in the stud flange with a thin round file in my drill.  
I would like to get a spare set of the larger 1938/39 7/big7 hubs front and rear as spares.......not yet had time to ask around.

Dennis

[Zetomagneto]

Wouldn't it be sensible to drill the holes in the hub & studs to accept the slightly larger (presumably metric) rivet?  Surely all these rivets do is hold the stud in position, they are hardly "safety critical".  The main clamping force is applied when the wheel nuts are done up.

Spot on mk-1

[Dennis Nicholas]

Wouldn't it be sensible to drill the holes in the hub & studs to accept the slightly larger (presumably metric) rivet?  Surely all these rivets do is hold the stud in position, they are hardly "safety critical".  The main clamping force is applied when the wheel nuts are done up.

Spot on mk-1

Assuming the availability of a drill bit the right size ......many may not have.  

Dennis

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I agree with Robert on this one, I have also seen a lot of hub carriers and I have yet to come across one with studs made from two parts.

Robert, Ian......the strain to pull the stud bit out of the flange of a one piece would be rather large and I would not expect just a stud shape to be pulled out. (as in the photo)....rather a more ragged end.  Also there is not the slightest hint of a radius where the stud would have met the flange.   Mysterious.  Perhaps mine were an inferior previously made different type fitted by a PO.

Dennis

[Ian Williams]

Dennis, you may not expect it but I can assure you it happens. I imagine you are simply getting confused thinking about the force needed to pull a new stud, rather the gradual demise from years of repetitive over tightening and cornering force. As Robert has already brought to your attention the sharp corner is a stress riser, and a nice round one through a thin flange at that. Think about it again inspect a few dozen more hub carriers and perhaps your expectations will change.

[Hedd_Jones]

After struggling to fit 'new' studs, in my case ex John Barlow because a) the rivet holes were in the wrong place, and b) the thread was oversize so I had to run a die nut down it. I decided that in future I shall use ht cap head bolts as wheel studs suitably shaped at the head end with an angle grinder and tack welded to prevent rotation.

Has anyone ever done this.