U joint woes help needed

[Erich]

Finding one Hardy Spicer joint on the Ulster rep a bit lumpy, I purchased two new spiders from one of the cherished suppliers. As I had reported earlier, the old races were a very tight fit, so I eased the openings to allow an easy press fit. At the GB end, everything went together smoothly. At the rear end, assembly on the prop yoke seized the spider. I checked the old spider and races against the new one. The old one, a GKN, measured 2.424 across the races, the new one measures 2.435 across the races. How can I fix this? Had thought about trying to widen the yoke slightly, but that would mean the holes would not be parallel. The keepers only barely fit. Machining the ends of the races does not look like an easy or effective solution. Why the difference and how do I solve this? Should I go back to a fabric and cardan block?

Erich in Seattle

[john williams]

Finding one Hardy Spicer joint on the Ulster rep a bit lumpy, I purchased two new spiders from one of the cherished suppliers. As I had reported earlier, the old races were a very tight fit, so I eased the openings to allow an easy press fit. At the GB end, everything went together smoothly. At the rear end, assembly on the prop yoke seized the spider. I checked the old spider and races against the new one. The old one, a GKN, measured 2.424 across the races, the new one measures 2.435 across the races. How can I fix this? Had thought about trying to widen the yoke slightly, but that would mean the holes would not be parallel. The keepers only barely fit. Machining the ends of the races does not look like an easy or effective solution. Why the difference and how do I solve this? Should I go back to a fabric and cardan block?

Erich in Seattle

Eric, if you can find four of the old cups/races with  the internal surfaces unmarked, try an old cup and new needle rollers on the new spider. If it is OK, fit the old cups/new needles/newspider assembly. Otherwise you will need to find an unused old stock replacement that matches the original. John

---

Eric, thinking about my reply, I realise I have completely misinterpreted your problem. Therefore my suggestion is worthless!! Please accept my apologies. John

[Erich]

Hi John, that might have worked if my old races were in OK shape. However, they all had wear. As well, they don't appear the fit the new inner race/spider.

Erich in Seattle

[Reckless Rat]

There must be someone near you that does this professionally. Take the propshaft to them with the new spiders and ask them to sort it. The way you're heading you will need a new one before you're done by the sound of it.

[Ruairidh Dunford]

There must be someone near you that does this professionally. Take the propshaft to them with the new spiders and ask them to sort it. The way you're heading you will need a new one before you're done by the sound of it.

Agreed - any decent transmission shop will be able to do this, most probably while you wait. In the UK most 4x4 specialist offer this service.

[Jeff Taylor]

Firstly I'd wholeheartedly agree with the advice given by Reckless and Ruairidh - certainly here in the UK there's loads of companies that will repair and if necessary make totally new prop shafts using standard off the shelf yokes that appear to be very similar in size if not identical to those originally fitted to Ruby's.

As to the two new UJ's you bought from one of the cherished suppliers:

GKN only specify in mm these days.

2.424" length = 61.5mm

2.435" length = 61.8mm

The correct bearing cap diameter for Austin Ruby yokes should be 23.8mm (0.937")

As previously mentioned by Roly in Peter Naulls post of 18.08.2018, GKN currently produce a cruciform spider 61.3mm in length across the races but also one at 61.5mm length - just that little bit longer although the cap diameter is slightly smaller at 23.5mm. As far as I can see GKN don't produce one 61.8mm (2.435") length.

The 61.3mm length unit is currently GKN UJ - U152 - what's the GKN part number on your old one Erich?

I added the following information to Peter's post:

The original Hardy Spicer part number for the UJ kits was K5-GB1 - this particular UJ kit fitted all the following vehicles:
Austin 7 1935/39, Big 7, Austin 8 (pre 1945), 10/4, Light 12/4 and Light 12/6.
Morris 8 1935/39, 10/4 and 12hp.
MG 1935/39 Magna, Magnette and Midget.

As Roly suggests, looking at the catalogue GKN UJ - U152 is 23.8D x 61.3L - interestingly both the Morris Register Spares Service and a well known Morris Spares cherished supplier stock a UJ with the part number QL152 described as fitting the Morris 8, 10/4 and 12hp which as I mentioned in my earlier post is the same UJ as an Austin Ruby.

Some further information - Hardy Spicer from the 1930's to 1950's used to specify their dimensions based purely on the size of the cruciform spider with its four needle bearing caps removed. The dimensions for the original K5-GB1 were therefore as follows:
Diameter of spider journals = 37/64" (14.684375mm)
Length of spider = 2.1/4" (57.15mm)

If you read Peter's post from the 18th of August, it would seem he too had been supplied the wrong size UJ's by one of the cherished suppliers and was planning on returning them for a refund our replacement.

Assuming your prop shaft yokes are indeed the original size Austin Ruby ones then the GKN (or equivalent to) U152 @ 61.3mm (2.413") length x 23.8mm (0.937") diameter should be the one you need.

Here's Roly's link to the current GKN catalogue:

https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/625e...joints.pdf

[Roland Alcock]

Me mentioned In despatches! That’s rare. 

[Erich]

Thank you all. An update. This afternoon I went to Drivelines NW. All they do is drivelines. As I had mentioned previously, following advice on the web and in the Woodrow book, I was under the impression that the old races were far too tight. It took whaling on the races with a ball pin hammer and a brass drift to move them. According to Woodrow, this should have been easy. There was no rust or paint. Someone had commented previously that a good press fit was all that was needed so I reamed/eased the yokes. I got one a wee bit loose, but thought, following Woodrow's advice, that bearing Loctite would allow that race to be seated securely. The tech at Drivelines NW said that this was not acceptable and I will likely need a new yoke, if he can find one. So now I'm faced with a discrepancy between what the Woodrow book says is OK, and what the Drivelines NW guy says is not acceptable. If he comes back to say my driveline is junk, what should I do. Buy a new one(if available for SWB) or go looking for a fabric/cardan block one? What I thought to be a fairly simple change out, is turning into an expensive repair/replacement. Do others come across similar issues?

Erich in Seattle

[Peter Naulls]

Erich,

I'm having very similar issues. The first UJs bought were the wrong length so they were returned and a refund given (perfectly happy with the response I got). I've now bought replacements, along with a couple of spares, from an on line Morris 8 spares supplier (having first checked the measurements and the part number) but they are very poor quality indeed. Not only are the caps 5 thou undersize but the length varies by about 20 thou between them all. I'm now waiting for another set from a third supplier.

The whole reason for replacing mine was to get a propshaft which I knew to be sound before balancing and re-fitting. Not as easy as I thought!

My local machine shop weren't keen on rebuilding it as the circlips were broken and rusted in place - they did suggest making a new shaft which with hindsight might have been a better option. Has anyone gone down this route I wonder?

Peter.

[Reckless Rat]

Why dont you contact the US Bantam/Austin owners club and ask them where they get theirs repaired. There must be a specialist classic transmission repairer supplier somewhere over the pond. Worst case scenario is buy a new propshaft. All you need is for the max/min length to be the same and for the flange holes to match up. Or buy one over here and ship it out.