Steering and ROSE joints

[Zetomagneto]

ttps://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/images/assets/products/ge17c_skf.jpg

Presume when you say Rose Joints , you mean Rod Ends -Rose Joints are something slightly different.

Hi Dennis,
              An issue of nomenclature as you say.  When working on this stuff in the past, these were always referred to as Rose joints





Where as this type of thing would be referred to as a rod end.



Being absolutely correct only joints manufactured by Rose Brothers should be called Rose Joints in the same way as anyone vacuuming the carpet with a device made by Electrolux or some other manufacturer shouldn't say that they're doing the  hoovering.

BTW, regarding the use of these on road cars, I converted most of the suspension and steering  on my road/competition A7 special in the early '80s. I have only recently changed those joints out due to them having some movement. There is an enormous range of qualities of these joints, the cheaper ones tend to be metal to metal, where road grit will cause a lot of wear. I used joints with an integral  Teflon/Kevlar (IIRC) interliner between the ball and joint body. These have stood up well to what must add up to considerable road mileage over the years.

Stuart, re the Rose joints nomenclature,  I think, like manufacturers, I would refer to your second photo as Rose Joints with threaded shank.  Others with a shank fixed to the inner swivel part instead of the hole for a bolt would be studded rose joint.

It is good to hear that your first lot lasted a long time on a road going car.  Do you have a makers name (and sizes) for the ones you used?
I have seen some on a manufacturers website that sound similar with a lining, and with seals either side plus a grease nipple.  But no prices mentioned.

GEOFF - Boots for joints......can you point me in direction of firm that does them please.

Dennis

No, Dennis, Stuart is absolutely right in his description of rod ends, that's what they are.Rose joints are a brand name of spherical joints, why ask a question then correct the answer?
Rgds

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    This is a Heim joint, not a "studded rose joint"

[Colin Reed]

HI all,
Forget calling them Heim or rose which are Trade names
Universally now they are rod ends or Spherical Bearings or studded rod ends
this will lead to less confusion
and they are made by a range of manufacturers.

Colin
Tinopai NZ

[Geoff Halstead]

Dennis,
Will do so later today or tomorrow as I have an Hospital appointment, at the Emergency X-Ray department, in an hour and need to leave early as it's a 20mile journey and who knows what bung-up are waiting to delay everyone.
Other half, a Nurse, came across 5 cars in ditches on her way back home this morning from her nigh-shift, saying that she drove no faster than 20mph, any higher just not on.

Geoff - New boiler installed just in time as 1.1/2" of snow overnight and -5°C

[Geoff Halstead]

Dennis,
Google search brings up plenty but here's a start:
Rose joint boots

Geoff - Another 1.1/2-2" of snow.

[Dennis Nicholas]

Well thanks to all so far...going through the minefield of nomenclature (way back in Feb).
When it came to better weather and possibility of painting I was inspired to strip the steering column, steering arm (big7) and drag link/steering side tube of old paint and shot blast ready to overhaul ball joints which I thought would be quickest way forward to getting back on road and ready for centenary, then at leisure make up a new steering side tube with rod ends.  How wrong.  First, though the balls seemed to be not too badly worn when measured by micrometer I then found hole in middle of one thrust bush (fixed) then had to use 14mm long reach socket to open out a cap that was too tight to easily slide over the tube (without paint) and turned up a rod to slightly open up distorted tube ends so that the thrust blocks (free) were indeed free and would move in the tube as they should; bought new repair kit of ball pins/thrust blocks /springs and just doing final assembly to check all now good when the thread I had put in the end of the caps to take an end play adjuster bolt and lock nut striped.

Went back to researching around again and came across, again, the article in Bristol A7 club by Ian Moorcraft  (is he still around?).
He quotes a fundamental statement from the Austin Service Journal that the ball joint should have 1/64 to 3/64 clearance and is NOT under preeload from the springs  as some articles would have one believe. (The article shows all the difficulties I had had to go through dismantling, though my bits were far less corroded)
So no real need for the adjuster bolt and I shall weld up hole.....relieved of angst on how to best repair.   So only really need shim washers for ruture wear.
Hopefully can now make progress after a week of faffing about.......should have gone for making new arm with rod ends!!

Dennis