16-01-2022, 11:02 PM
I am almost, but not quite, at the point of writing off my A7 with all the problems of getting it on the road. I tried not to make this a rant, this is just where I am at trying to get my special on the road.
The problem now is that being an assembled from parts car the powers that be consider it scratch built. There is no history of the car ever being registered in NZ because when the idiots computerised the system they only included current registrations. All old info was lost. So now getting an old car back on the road involves us proving to the people that lost the info that it was registered here. That's one of the problems we have.
If you start from a pile of parts you can't easily do that. There is a way to do it though, through the Low Volume Certification process. That was designed for building cars from scratch but it really focussed around hot rods and modern built type sports cars (think Lotus 7 types) and for modifying modern cars, engine swaps, rebodies, turbo/supercharger mods, and so on. There is a car constructors manual that explains very well what all the rules are. It is pretty good if building a 'modern' car.
To their credit they did realise that pre-war/vintage cars can't meet the rules so there are special categories for historic replicas. They can relax all the rules somewhat except for some fixed requirements. My Riley falls under that as it is a period Brooklands replica and so should get through as that. This is why it is important the car is all period correct. Certain mods are allowable (using a modern radiator core for example as long as the outside of the car look correct) but they look at anything like that and decide if it is enough of a change to stop it being historic.
It all gets a little odd since you need the VCC to say the car is a period replica and they can't do that till the end and it's finished but the certifiers want to see the car as you build it. So you are taking a risk that what you are doing will be able to get through. You need to tell the certifiers what you are doing before/while doing it to keep them happy. Obviously you pay for the time to do this which is fair enough as that is their business (they have to do training, certifications, etc, etc) but of course the costs all add up. For new built cars, like a one off hot rod, there is a form you can pre-emptively fill in explaining what you want to do but I was told this wasn't needed for a historic special.
The main problem is one of the safety rules the government says you can't bend at all is that all scratch built cars, even historic replicas, need seatbelts. This is NZTA, the government, who say this, not the certifiers. It used to be that lap belts were OK but they apparently they changed that rule a few years ago so now you need diagonal belts or a full harness.
The Riley I should be able to fit a harness I think. There is room to do it and structure to attach things too. And a racing harness in what's basically a factory racing car makes sense. But an Austin 7? Especially mine with a narrow, curvy sports body it's looking like it's not possible. There is no where to mount any structure to attach belts to, at least not without massively changing the car I have already built. Any bars would need to be much higher and wider than the body shell which just isn't easily doable.
I am talking to the LVVTA guys now and trying to find a certifier who is willing to work with me. That's the other issue, there are limited certifiers and you have to find someone who wants to work on your cars to get help them through. Plus of course you pay them for this service. The annual report from the VCC said the cost of going through the process averaged about $5kNZ. For a car worth maybe $15-20k is it worth it? I think my time, money and effort are best put into the Riley.
Maybe the certifiers know some way around it so will need to see what they say but as I mentioned this isn't their rule, it's the governments. I think the VCC here are slowly realising this is an issue but I suspect it's now too late to do anything.
I'll have my Riley as a vintage sports car when it's done so maybe I can find an already registered and road legal 7 Saloon and transplant all my good special bits into that and the body I made goes on the garage wall as an interesting artefact. If I could find a car already registered as a A7 special you could put the body on that perfectly legally I think as for already registered vehicles they don't actually have a clue what body is on it. It's just a 'special'.
They have closed that loophole now though with any new cars that need low volume certification. All cars now get given an RFID tag physically attached to the car. A handheld reader lets them scan this and it takes them to a private web page with a full history of the car, including photographs so they can check for any changes. All LVVTA certified cars will have this now. I am not sure if all entry certified cars have to have them say a deregistered car with papers being re-entered into the system? I think if it needs LVVTA cert then yes, it will get one.
I know someone will say just buy a Ruby already on the road and put the body on that and drive it and yes, I suspect you could get away with that fine, your average WOF place won't have a clue. But that works right up to the point you have any kind of accident or get stopped by the Police and then you end up in all sorts of issues and give the powers that be more ammo to say 'see, we shouldn't allow home made cars on our roads'. Plus there is still the expense of buying another car.
Also just driving the car unregistered. $5k pays a lot of fines but of course it's the insurance and demerit points that would be a problem!
So I think my efforts will be the Riley from now on. The Austin let me learn the skills needed to build an old car so I will apply those skills for the Riley. It's taken me 10 years to get this far (and the rules have changed in that time) but I think the Riley will be my last actually built one. It's just not worth the hassle and expense of trying to build cars now especially a car with little finished value like an Austin 7. I'll stick to keeping cars already on the road going I guess.
Has anyone got or even seen a picture of an Austin with belts in it? I mean something like an Ulster. I haven't found any so far. It'll be interesting to see if the certifier, when I find one, has any suggestions.
So to answer the original question I can't promote my car and to be honest I can't recommend my hobby, building a car from scratch. The amount of time, money and effort it requires for an Austin 7 just isn't worth it. And I certainly wouldn't have done it if I couldn't have started with a cheap and simple car like the Austin. I am glad I got to do that but it is quite frustrating to not be able to drive it now it's done.
So restoring a car already on the road, certainly. But building an A7 special now in NZ is questionable. I seem to remember posting about that months ago and I am still trying to understand the rules!
I am not the only one either having problems with this, there are others finding it difficult and it was noted (along with that average cost) in the VCC annual report.
Simon
The problem now is that being an assembled from parts car the powers that be consider it scratch built. There is no history of the car ever being registered in NZ because when the idiots computerised the system they only included current registrations. All old info was lost. So now getting an old car back on the road involves us proving to the people that lost the info that it was registered here. That's one of the problems we have.
If you start from a pile of parts you can't easily do that. There is a way to do it though, through the Low Volume Certification process. That was designed for building cars from scratch but it really focussed around hot rods and modern built type sports cars (think Lotus 7 types) and for modifying modern cars, engine swaps, rebodies, turbo/supercharger mods, and so on. There is a car constructors manual that explains very well what all the rules are. It is pretty good if building a 'modern' car.
To their credit they did realise that pre-war/vintage cars can't meet the rules so there are special categories for historic replicas. They can relax all the rules somewhat except for some fixed requirements. My Riley falls under that as it is a period Brooklands replica and so should get through as that. This is why it is important the car is all period correct. Certain mods are allowable (using a modern radiator core for example as long as the outside of the car look correct) but they look at anything like that and decide if it is enough of a change to stop it being historic.
It all gets a little odd since you need the VCC to say the car is a period replica and they can't do that till the end and it's finished but the certifiers want to see the car as you build it. So you are taking a risk that what you are doing will be able to get through. You need to tell the certifiers what you are doing before/while doing it to keep them happy. Obviously you pay for the time to do this which is fair enough as that is their business (they have to do training, certifications, etc, etc) but of course the costs all add up. For new built cars, like a one off hot rod, there is a form you can pre-emptively fill in explaining what you want to do but I was told this wasn't needed for a historic special.
The main problem is one of the safety rules the government says you can't bend at all is that all scratch built cars, even historic replicas, need seatbelts. This is NZTA, the government, who say this, not the certifiers. It used to be that lap belts were OK but they apparently they changed that rule a few years ago so now you need diagonal belts or a full harness.
The Riley I should be able to fit a harness I think. There is room to do it and structure to attach things too. And a racing harness in what's basically a factory racing car makes sense. But an Austin 7? Especially mine with a narrow, curvy sports body it's looking like it's not possible. There is no where to mount any structure to attach belts to, at least not without massively changing the car I have already built. Any bars would need to be much higher and wider than the body shell which just isn't easily doable.
I am talking to the LVVTA guys now and trying to find a certifier who is willing to work with me. That's the other issue, there are limited certifiers and you have to find someone who wants to work on your cars to get help them through. Plus of course you pay them for this service. The annual report from the VCC said the cost of going through the process averaged about $5kNZ. For a car worth maybe $15-20k is it worth it? I think my time, money and effort are best put into the Riley.
Maybe the certifiers know some way around it so will need to see what they say but as I mentioned this isn't their rule, it's the governments. I think the VCC here are slowly realising this is an issue but I suspect it's now too late to do anything.
I'll have my Riley as a vintage sports car when it's done so maybe I can find an already registered and road legal 7 Saloon and transplant all my good special bits into that and the body I made goes on the garage wall as an interesting artefact. If I could find a car already registered as a A7 special you could put the body on that perfectly legally I think as for already registered vehicles they don't actually have a clue what body is on it. It's just a 'special'.
They have closed that loophole now though with any new cars that need low volume certification. All cars now get given an RFID tag physically attached to the car. A handheld reader lets them scan this and it takes them to a private web page with a full history of the car, including photographs so they can check for any changes. All LVVTA certified cars will have this now. I am not sure if all entry certified cars have to have them say a deregistered car with papers being re-entered into the system? I think if it needs LVVTA cert then yes, it will get one.
I know someone will say just buy a Ruby already on the road and put the body on that and drive it and yes, I suspect you could get away with that fine, your average WOF place won't have a clue. But that works right up to the point you have any kind of accident or get stopped by the Police and then you end up in all sorts of issues and give the powers that be more ammo to say 'see, we shouldn't allow home made cars on our roads'. Plus there is still the expense of buying another car.
Also just driving the car unregistered. $5k pays a lot of fines but of course it's the insurance and demerit points that would be a problem!
So I think my efforts will be the Riley from now on. The Austin let me learn the skills needed to build an old car so I will apply those skills for the Riley. It's taken me 10 years to get this far (and the rules have changed in that time) but I think the Riley will be my last actually built one. It's just not worth the hassle and expense of trying to build cars now especially a car with little finished value like an Austin 7. I'll stick to keeping cars already on the road going I guess.
Has anyone got or even seen a picture of an Austin with belts in it? I mean something like an Ulster. I haven't found any so far. It'll be interesting to see if the certifier, when I find one, has any suggestions.
So to answer the original question I can't promote my car and to be honest I can't recommend my hobby, building a car from scratch. The amount of time, money and effort it requires for an Austin 7 just isn't worth it. And I certainly wouldn't have done it if I couldn't have started with a cheap and simple car like the Austin. I am glad I got to do that but it is quite frustrating to not be able to drive it now it's done.
So restoring a car already on the road, certainly. But building an A7 special now in NZ is questionable. I seem to remember posting about that months ago and I am still trying to understand the rules!
I am not the only one either having problems with this, there are others finding it difficult and it was noted (along with that average cost) in the VCC annual report.
Simon