05-08-2021, 08:35 PM
One issue here is that Waka Kotahi (LTNZ) who do all the VINing stuff got slammed in a government report a few years ago for being too lax on things. So the pendulum has now swung too far the other way it seems. I know all the truck certifiers were up in arms a few months ago. When building a car or modifying one it gets very tricky since you end up needing to go the LVVTA route. The Low Volume certification. There are about 40 certifiers in the country and the idea is you go to them and they help you with your build using a comprehensive manual that sets out the rules.
That manual is actually very good BUT is it all written around hot rods or modern cars. If you read it fully, and I have, there is very little mention of vintage/pre-war at all. Lots of exemptions though based on year. So single cable or rod brakes are allowed if the car was originally built before 1952 and you use all original components. That's specifically mentioned. Otherwise you have to have dual circuit brakes.
But it's all the things that don't have exemptions that will bite you depending on how the guy doing the inspection sees it. For example seats. If it is an original body you are fine if the seat and mounts are all original. But what happens with a new body like a special? If they decide the handbook rules apply then you can't bolt the seat to a wooden floor. You have to use 7/16th or 8mm bolts (my 70s MGB only uses 1/4 bolts). There are all sorts of little things like that all the way through that can bite you.
If they deem the car scratch built then you're totally screwed. You have to incorporate all the rules since the date exemptions won't apply. You end up with a modern hot rod. So has to have dual circuit brakes, non burst door locks, collapsible steering, proper seatbelts, modern lights with standards numbers, etc, etc. They do offer lists of accepted suppliers for these things though, mostly hot rod parts suppliers funnily enough. There might be ways around this. You can submit ideas to them (for a fee) to get pre approval. I don't know exactly how that works thought in terms of knowing which rules they apply when they actually certify the car.
This LVVTA certification happens before you go to the normal testing place too to get the actual VIN inspection done. The idea seems to be though with the LVV cert done that second step should be easier. Before you do any of this you have to actually have a VIN so you apply to Waka Kotahi for that first. If the car has no existing paperwork you need to apply to get the new VIN. That's where the papers from the VCC are meant to help I think.
You're right Hedd that comments on forums usually don't help as everyone's situation is different and as you say, often out of date. One of the issues here is even the people who are supposed to know, Waka Kotahi (LTNZ), VINing places, certifiers, VCC and so on, don't seem to know! There is a forum for the LVVTA side of things, not much talk about vintage cars there either unfortunately. But I did find this post from a few years ago where someone asks about the process and even the LVVTA people are saying it's hard to know! https://lvvta.proboards.com/thread/501/s...rt-process
If the whole process hinges around finding the 'right' person to talk to it's all broken.
The best way in NZ is to find a car already registered and in the system, especially if it is already registered as a 'special'. I think you could do whatever you like with that within reason and no one knows or cares.
Simon
That manual is actually very good BUT is it all written around hot rods or modern cars. If you read it fully, and I have, there is very little mention of vintage/pre-war at all. Lots of exemptions though based on year. So single cable or rod brakes are allowed if the car was originally built before 1952 and you use all original components. That's specifically mentioned. Otherwise you have to have dual circuit brakes.
But it's all the things that don't have exemptions that will bite you depending on how the guy doing the inspection sees it. For example seats. If it is an original body you are fine if the seat and mounts are all original. But what happens with a new body like a special? If they decide the handbook rules apply then you can't bolt the seat to a wooden floor. You have to use 7/16th or 8mm bolts (my 70s MGB only uses 1/4 bolts). There are all sorts of little things like that all the way through that can bite you.
If they deem the car scratch built then you're totally screwed. You have to incorporate all the rules since the date exemptions won't apply. You end up with a modern hot rod. So has to have dual circuit brakes, non burst door locks, collapsible steering, proper seatbelts, modern lights with standards numbers, etc, etc. They do offer lists of accepted suppliers for these things though, mostly hot rod parts suppliers funnily enough. There might be ways around this. You can submit ideas to them (for a fee) to get pre approval. I don't know exactly how that works thought in terms of knowing which rules they apply when they actually certify the car.
This LVVTA certification happens before you go to the normal testing place too to get the actual VIN inspection done. The idea seems to be though with the LVV cert done that second step should be easier. Before you do any of this you have to actually have a VIN so you apply to Waka Kotahi for that first. If the car has no existing paperwork you need to apply to get the new VIN. That's where the papers from the VCC are meant to help I think.
You're right Hedd that comments on forums usually don't help as everyone's situation is different and as you say, often out of date. One of the issues here is even the people who are supposed to know, Waka Kotahi (LTNZ), VINing places, certifiers, VCC and so on, don't seem to know! There is a forum for the LVVTA side of things, not much talk about vintage cars there either unfortunately. But I did find this post from a few years ago where someone asks about the process and even the LVVTA people are saying it's hard to know! https://lvvta.proboards.com/thread/501/s...rt-process
If the whole process hinges around finding the 'right' person to talk to it's all broken.
The best way in NZ is to find a car already registered and in the system, especially if it is already registered as a 'special'. I think you could do whatever you like with that within reason and no one knows or cares.
Simon