Mulliner Wood Frame Construction

[Martin Prior]

As someone who makes Austin Seven timber frames for a living, this makes no sense at all.

If one was trying to counteract some imagined effect of twisting or flexing I'd have thought that a mix of right and left-handed threads would be necessary on BOTH sides of the body - in other words, say, RH on the hinge side and LH on the lock side of one door and the other way about on the other door.

[John Mason]

I have read this string with great interest. I know this does not really answer the question but I think it was designed by someone with s screw loose (left or right handed thread)

John Mason

[Colin Swinbourne]

The other thing that puzzles me is that the screws are brass, my understanding is that steel or iron screws would have been used in the ash frame (that’s certainly what is used in both my Delage and Rover) Martin is this correct?

[Martin Prior]

The other thing that puzzles me is that the screws are brass, my understanding is that steel or iron screws would have been used in the ash frame (that’s certainly what is used in both my Delage and Rover) Martin is this correct?

We're working on a body from a 1913 Armstrong-Whitworth, in which the few remaining screws ARE brass. I suspect that the choice of screw material was probably down to a matter of cost and the fact that brass screws going into hardwood need to be handled with care!

[DavidL]

If I was putting a brass screw into hardwood I'd put a steel one in first, take it out, then put the brass one in. Doesn't seem like a faff as using "proper screws" is such a rare treat now rather than the modern super sharp pozi drive types.

Does (did) anyone wax screws before putting them in?

[Jeff Taylor]

The other thing that puzzles me is that the screws are brass, my understanding is that steel or iron screws would have been used in the ash frame (that’s certainly what is used in both my Delage and Rover) Martin is this correct?

We're working on a body from a 1913 Armstrong-Whitworth, in which the few remaining screws ARE brass. I suspect that the choice of screw material was probably down to a matter of cost and the fact that brass screws going into hardwood need to be handled with care!

As you may be aware Martin, there's a 1912 Armstrong Whitworth 15/20 with Eshott style Two Seater open body - chassis number 2500 and registration X 2463 in The Discovery Museum in Newcastle upon Tyne. Beamish Museum have an earlier example - a 1906 open Touring Car registration S 130. Both vehicles would have been built just a few mile down the road from me at Armstrong Whitworth's Scotswood Works in Newcastle upon Tyne which manufactured cars from 1904 to 1918 when production was moved to Coventry to become Armstrong-Siddeley. So the body you're working on would most likely be a product of Scotswood Works.

[Oxford Jack]

If I was putting a brass screw into hardwood I'd put a steel one in first, take it out, then put the brass one in.  Doesn't seem like a faff as using "proper screws" is such a rare treat now rather than the modern super sharp pozi drive types.  

Does (did) anyone wax screws before putting them in?

I have a stick of wax in my carpentry box and have had for the last fourty years (renewed from time to time) it's purpose to enable brass and more recently stainless screws to be easily driven into pilot holes. Both are notorious for their brittleness and I always waxed screws that were to be driven into hardwood or even softwood if a break would later be visible. Materials have generally got better over time, however the influx of very poorly manufactured hardware, such as screws is sadly not unknown? It is commonplace for a percentage of posidrive screws in a new box to be without slots in the head, no thread on the shank, bent or otherwise unusable. Joiners and carpenters in my experience generally applied a lubricating agent of some sort.

[Ray White]

While we are on this topic perhaps some contributors would be interested in how I managed to remove some rusty wood screws from an Ash frame. The Spare wheel carrier on my 1930 Austin Swallow saloon needed to be removed to replace the rivets holding the wheel retaining studs in the boss. The wood screws were rusted so tight that the heads would just break off if I tried to undo them. The answer I found was to rest a hot soldering iron against the screw head until the heat did it's work and the rusted screws could be removed easily.

Maybe of use to someone one day.

[Colin Morgan]

Hi Ray,

Wish I had known this when I did my Ruby woodwork 20 years ago - yes, all the screws were steel and rusted.

And to those patiently reading this far through the thread, please forgive the loose screw as we finally reach April 1st.

Colin

[Ray White]

Well Colin. it occurred to me that perhaps someone used these LH screws as a long forgotten April fool's day joke.