Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,641 Threads: 93
Reputation:
15
Location: Monmouthshire
Whilst cars, and indeed chassis, at certain auctions have been much discussed, no one seems to have mentioned Anglia Car Auctions at the weekend. On Saturday, on offer was a "1935 Ulster" The catalogue was commendable in its honesty, the car could only have been less genuine with a Reliant engine. The exhaust arrangement came straight from a Hoffnung cartoon of an oddity in the brass section. A friend suggested that the bodywork was a Friday afternoon job in the body shop of a well known car manufacturer in Tamworth, one of those Friday afternoons when the foreman never left the pub. If it was grp, it is odd that it displayed a fine row of pop rivets. This got as far as £6,000, failing to reach its reserve.
A suitable looking 1934 Tourer went for £7,250, hammer prices with 6% commission added.
Now, as for the "1925 Chummy" The catalogue description was indeed interesting, claiming a totally original car, but wholly lacking engine or chassis numbers and without a V5! This appears to have sold for £11,250. Quite what this says about the price recently reached at Brightwells for a Chummy with identity and history, let alone a Pram Hood at Edmonds I cannot say. A very happy vendor this time no doubt. One might speculate that one of the numbered chassis with V5 that changed hands at Stroud recently might be back on the road in complete form by the end of this week.
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,230 Threads: 33
Reputation:
7
Location: Salop
Car type: '28 GE Cup. '28 AD Chummy '30 RL Saloon. '34 RP Saloon. Too Many toys!
It struck me that the chummy was a classic case someone with no idea getting some other numpties to sell a car. Typical Auction.
I suspect those who viewed soon clocked if it had a visible chassis number or not, and the price will have reflected what seemed to be a car that would easily get an age related plate.
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,534 Threads: 60
Reputation:
20
(10-11-2020, 04:07 PM)Hedd_Jones Wrote: It struck me that the chummy was a classic case someone with no idea getting some other numpties to sell a car. Typical Auction.
I suspect those who viewed soon clocked if it had a visible chassis number or not, and the price will have reflected what seemed to be a car that would easily get an age related plate.
The Anglia car was poorly described rather than a poor car in my book
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,808 Threads: 99
Reputation:
21
10-11-2020, 04:17 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2020, 04:18 PM by Tony Betts.)
hi steve,
not sure what comments you were hoping would come up?
id be interested in why the stroud car will be on the road quickly. is it a dodgy caracture in the south who has bought it?? 
i believe the 1925 in norfolk, is the second time that car has gone through there auction. that price sounds cheap for a restored? 1925 car. but considering whoever built it, couldnt get a reg number with no identification numbers. makes it sound expensive for something you cant use.
unless the buyer is a polisher.
tony
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,641 Threads: 93
Reputation:
15
Location: Monmouthshire
Tony
All I meant about the Stroud car was that the owner of a chassis and a V5 might have been happy to acquire a complete machine without identity, and quickly put paperwork and car together, hey presto, a Chummy!
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,230 Threads: 33
Reputation:
7
Location: Salop
Car type: '28 GE Cup. '28 AD Chummy '30 RL Saloon. '34 RP Saloon. Too Many toys!
10-11-2020, 05:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2020, 05:30 PM by Hedd_Jones.)
Even without a visible chassis numbers, there are mechanisms to allow for this. You get a club to date it based on its features, which to be fair is easy as on an Austin 7, and it gets allocated a date as per the youngest component. Then allocated a DVLA generated VIN (which has to be stamped on - sometimes by some approved 'garage', - sometimes inspected - and sometimes any old numbers obliterated). Then an Age related plate is issued.
Even if the body was new when the car was restored, I would bet that there isn't anyone in the world who could accurately date a 10 year old body once the paint is on it.
I also cant believe there is no engine number, if its been ground out, I'd be very surprised there isn't a hole in the crankcase!.
Did anyone actually lay eyes on the car?
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,534 Threads: 60
Reputation:
20
10-11-2020, 05:38 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2020, 05:39 PM by Charles P.)
(10-11-2020, 05:27 PM)Hedd_Jones Wrote: Even without a visible chassis numbers, there are mechanisms to allow for this. You get a club to date it based on its features, which to be fair is easy as on an Austin 7, and it gets allocated a date as per the youngest component. Then allocated a DVLA generated VIN (which has to be stamped on - sometimes by some approved 'garage', - sometimes inspected - and sometimes any old numbers obliterated). Then an Age related plate is issued.
Even if the body was new when the car was restored, I would bet that there isn't anyone in the world who could accurately date a 10 year old body once the paint is on it.
I also cant believe there is no engine number, if its been ground out, I'd be very surprised there isn't a hole in the crankcase!.
Did anyone actually lay eyes on the car?
The vendor quoted the number 13163, which dates reasonably correctly to 1925. It was initially quoted with an extra digit so looked early 30's (despite being a mag crankcase) which fooled some keyboard warriors on social media.
I didn't look, despite it being not too far. I expect that either the purchaser will turn up here or we'll see it advertised elsewhere, as is the tendency.
c
PS - comes with a Norfolk Club dating letter so not a risk
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 484 Threads: 14
Reputation:
9
Location: Dunchurch, Warwickshire
10-11-2020, 09:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-11-2020, 09:40 PM by David Cochrane.)
This car, with Engine No. M13163, has been listed on the Pram Hood Register since 1972. It shows Chassis No. 13248 but no Registration number. It was then owned by a Mr Anderson who lived in Downham Market, Norfolk. Close inspection of the photos shows a great deal that isn't correct for 1925.
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 272 Threads: 18
Reputation:
7
Location: Deepest Norfolk
I was contacted by the auctioneers and inspected this car in August 2015. I issued the Norfolk A7 club dating letter.
I pointed out that the only number I was able to identify on the car was the engine number, M13163. No other numbers were present. I went on to list those items on the car that led me to believe it was built late '25 early '26.
I concluded by saying "Although the absence of any chassis, axle or body numbers prevent accurate dating, I am convinced this vehicle was originally manufactured between October 1925 and early 1926."
Rick
In deepest Norfolk
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,641 Threads: 93
Reputation:
15
Location: Monmouthshire
Rick
In which case I am surprised that amidst the rest of the catalogue entry, you were somewhat dismissed with "comes with a NA7C dating letter." Perhaps giving greater importance to your survey might have been more convincing. I hasten to add that I am being interested, and certainly not judgemental. Anyone who saw a certain machine currently almost wholly dismantled in my workshop in a previous form as a lawnmower in Aberdeen, or under a milkman's trailer in Aberystwyth, don't hesitate to tell me!
|
