Identification question

[PedigreeChummy]

Afternoon all

Been lurking for a bit and now have a question to ask.

I have come across a 1932 Tourer, but have been a bit confused by the chassis/engine numbers and what exact model they identify the car as...

Chassis is: 1468***
Engine is: M1630**

First registered 29/02/1932

According to the A7CA database, the car is described as an AG Tourer, and the registration date ties in to this, but the car is doesn't seem to be that model, rather an AH, with the longer wheelbase, rear petrol tank etc. 

I'm a bit confused, as production dates suggest that the car should be registered a lot later in 1932 when the new model changes were made....

Anyone shed any light? I'm wondering whether someone has been a bit liberal with the identification plates, or whether the logbook has an incorrect date on it.

Is there a more reliable source of numbers than the tags? I'm away from the car for a few weeks, so can't check up in the flesh at this point...

All advice and greater knowledge appreciated... Austin records seem a bit thin from that period.

Photo attached

[Mike Costigan]

The car in your photograph is definitely a long-wheelbase AH tourer. The engine number you quote is correct for a very early example  from September 1932, but the chassis number and registration date don't fit with the car. Perhaps the chassis number should be 1648xx rather than 1468xx, and maybe the registration date should be 29/12/1932? It would be unusual to see two dyslexic details, but perhaps possible, otherwise yes, it looks like you may have some rogue details or documents.

[PedigreeChummy]

The car in your photograph is definitely a long-wheelbase AH tourer. The engine number you quote is correct for a very early example  from September 1932, but the chassis number and registration date don't fit with the car. Perhaps the chassis number should be 1648xx rather than 1468xx, and maybe the registration date should be 29/12/1932? It would be unusual to see two dyslexic details, but perhaps possible, otherwise yes, it looks like you may have some rogue details or documents.

Thanks for your speedy reply, Mike. 

Yes, that has crossed my mind... clerical errors during the registration process over the years not having been picked up on etc. I've had that happen with other vehicles, admittedly not twice on the same logbook, but I'll have a closer look when I'm next standing by the side of the car.

1932 was indeed a leap year, so the Feb 29th date is a possibility....

I know that the factory did use to add newer parts from not-too-distant future models willy nilly, but this couldn't be the case given the model changes over the AG and the AH, chassis length being the main difference I suppose.

Oh well, we'll see. letter to DVLA if the numbers are indeed incorrectly transposed...

---

Is there another location for the chassis number rather than just the riveted tag?

[Dave Prior]

There should be a number stamped into the nearside chassis member either behind or in front of the rear engine mounting.
This guide is very useful-
http://a7ca.org/downloads/QuoteThisNumber.pdf

[PedigreeChummy]

There should be a number stamped into the nearside chassis member either behind or in front of the rear engine mounting.
This guide is very useful-
http://a7ca.org/downloads/QuoteThisNumber.pdf

Thanks Dave... useful link and info.

[Martin Prior]

Does the car have a "Car No" plate next to the chassis number plate on the scuttle?

Does it have a body number stamped into the top of the transmission tunnel?  If it does, it may well be prefixed "AH".

It would appear to be from late '32 onwards. The chassis number is too low, but the engine number would date from late 1932 (my RP registered 01/02/33, has its original engine M166679). The chassis number should be within a few hundred either way of this.

[Reckless Rat]

Like these (which are originals). Be wary because there are replicas available from our usual suppliers but the rivets and/or the stamping font usually gives it away.

The one on the left is the "Car n°" plate. It reads B8 223 which is a mid 33 car

[PedigreeChummy]

Thanks for the info guys.

Austin numbers do seem to be somewhat all over the place from this period, particularly during years with model changes.

I suppose what I need to see is the chassis number stamped on the chassis member to get a true idea. What confuses me a bit is that the number shown on the chassis "plate" would suggest an AG model, but the chassis is long wheel base, so if that stamped number does match the "plate" number, then how can that be? Could it be an RN chassis with a later AH/AJ body.... the transmission tunnel would tell me this, wouldn't it? If this is the case, is there a legitimate reason that a Saloon chassis would have been used in the factory to make a Tourer (I've read about all sorts of lying-around parts being used willy nilly... is this stretching it a bit?) or is it more likely an after-the-event change, a less charitable reason being to disguise a Saloon as a more valuable Tourer?

I've read differing accounts saying the AG was short wheelbase (as was my opinion) and some saying it was long wheelbase, so now I'm REALLY confused.

As for the riveted plates, Martin and Reckless, they have been re-riveted (non-solid rivets) following a restoration and look too new to be original, so that is a question mark, with the Car no. one having an AJ prefix which is definitely wrong (someone trying too hard?) as as far as I can tell, this should have a B5 or B6 prefix across the range for 1932.

What I am trying to decide, is whether to continue with the purchase... the seller is a guy I trust, as I have bought a previous car off him (a Mini) so have proceeded on this one in good faith only to find some dubious numbers, however this is a distance purchase, so I am at his mercy on the numbers side. I think it is something he may not have looked into too deeply himself. Numbers on frames and transmissions is something I really need to be provided with, I think.

These prefixes and numbers really are a mess, though. I also need to have the car registered in France, as that is where I live, and this could throw up a real paperwork problem, given the French penchant for bureaucracy.

All thoughts welcome.

[Reckless Rat]

If the car is genuine and not a bitsa you should have no trouble registering it in France. You will need a bill of sale and an "attestation" from the FFVE in order to get a Carte Grise. Be aware that there is somewhere in the region of 6 months backlog at the FFVE so be patient.

[JonE]

Find chassis number first. In fact, put problem on vendor's job list - you need a photo of the stamped chassis - he or she may need to do some scraping - and photos of the alloy tags. Then you can start your forensic determination!