New member hello & APD rebuild

[Goldnrust]

Hello everyone. I'm Steve and I've just purchased a 1935 APD project to fix up over the winter and hopefully enjoy driving next summer! 

I've had a string of 60s and 70s classics over the past decade, most of which were bought as wrecks and I spent many cold winter evenings welding them back together but, at more than twice as old as me, this Austin 7 is my first pre-war car! 

That said, I'm not completely new to the realities of owning and using pre-war vehicles as I also own a 1934 BSA B2 motorcycle. Seeing how much support there is for the Austin 7, this should actually be easier to live with, as supply of parts and knowledge for pre-war BSA's is very limited! 

Enough about me, what about the car! 

   
   
   
   

It's an early 1935 APD in red, which was part restored several years ago and then the restoration halted sadly by the passing of the owner. I have purchased the car from a gentlemen who claimed to have bought it with the intention of finishing it off himself and then changed his mind. He was a bit vague about some of the details, and therefore so am I!

What drew me to it, aside from the fact that it was an affordable way to acquire a tourer (for me nothing beats driving with the roof down on a nice day), was the condition of the body. With young kids my hobby time is more limited now, and I didn't want to commit myself to another vehicle requiring endless welding and bodywork. I'm much happier working on mechanicals which can be done comparatively quietly and cleanly in the evenings when the kids are asleep! 

I can find no rust in the body at all. It was claimed that the wood work was all replaced, some of it certainly looks new and everything else feels solid enough. And the paint is great, it's claimed it was resprayed as part of the restoration work. The bonnet and wings are not so shiny, with chipped old paint, but they are all solid enough and should I wish to make them as shiny as the main body it will not be a big task. I'm more a fan of the oily rag look if I'm honest so I wont be in a rush to paint them, I'd like to drive first!

Mechanically, it looks as if the chassis and running gear has all been cleaned and painted. I'm told it was all refurbished but having sat for several years, and I've no idea if thats 5 years or 20 years, then I will be sure to go through it all properly before hitting the road.

The engine claims to have been rebuilt, and looking down the plug holes I can see shiny pistons tops as if it's never run, but it's currently got no compression, I mean not even a whisper of air when I put my finger over the plug hole and turn the handle... I'm presuming valves are hung open, or even that there are internal bits missing! 

The brakes appear to work (at least on some level!) but I'm sure would benefit from some careful set-up. It's got a bowdenex conversion up front, which I read on here have mixed reviews.

So there's lots for me to be getting on with, and I'll have lots of questions for you all I'm sure! I've got a copy of RJ Wyatts' and Bill William's books, and have been reading on the forum familiarising myself with the car prior to purchase, but there's no substitute for being able to ask someone about specific details!

Picking up someone else's project without knowing exactly where they left off is always a bit tricky to start with, but I'll start with a couple of (hopefully) easy questions! 

1. Am I correct in assuming that the hardware would have been BSW or BSF threads originally? I am missing all of the mounting hardware for the wings, grill and various other components and, whilst I can of course start measuring up, having a starting point helps! 

2. The car is currently painted red, but I noticed that a paint chip on the floor pan revealed some dark green, is there an easy way to know the original colour? Not a high priority, but just interesting to know.

3. Can anyone confirm the sill structure for a high frame Opal like mine? I can see a single skin steel sill, with two strips of ash on the inside running from the A pillar back to the seat boxes, but then just the single skin of metal from there back to the B pillar, is that correct, or am I missing some more ash here? Excuse the dirt and damp, I need to get it full tired out as the car got wet during delivery to me.

   
   

On the same topic, my running boards appear either home made (or reproductions?) that are a bit flimsy feeling, should there be some re-enforcement under for forward edge of them? They are pop riveted to the sill currently which I'm fairly sure isn't right! haha

   
   



Looking forward to finding out more about 'Little Red' as my girls have named it, and to being a part of the forum. 

Thanks.

[Tony Griffiths]

That looks to be an excellent basis for what should be a relatively straightforward rebuild. I'm sure that other owners of this model will be pleased to help.
In case you need it, here is a list that might prove useful:
CLUBS:
There are so many Austin 7 clubs that, in 1969, an association of them was formed - and this is now the go-to place that hosts a mass of important data: https://a7ca.org/ It's a large site with lists of clubs, a superb archive of historical data, reproduction handbooks, chassis and car registers, A7 history, A7 model identification, events, etc, - explore the A7CA website: https://a7ca.org
The page that links to the most important sections is: https://archive.a7ca.org/
DIRECT LINKS to HANDBOOKS, PARTS MANUALS, and SALES CATALOGUES
A comprehensive collection can be downloaded as PDFs: https://archive.a7ca.org/collections/han...rts-lists/
Sales brochures can be found here: https://archive.a7ca.org/collections/show-brochures/
The Pre-War A7 club has a useful Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/pwa7c .... with other enthusiasts forming groups for specific models or regional interests.
As a club member, you will receive not only the club's magazine but also the Association Magazine, published quarterly since 1970 https://a7ca.org/about-us/magazine/
BACKGROUND and BOOKS:
To read the fascinating background to the car - with reproductions of the notebook by Stanley Edge, the design draftsman see: https://a7ca.org/austin-seven/the-people/
Austin 7 books can be bought from: http://www.pwa7c.co.uk/bookshop.php. This is a good collection of material, including historical and technical literature with data on specific models such as the Type 65 and Nippy, Grasshopper and Ulster, etc.
For engine, other mechanical work and restorations one highly recommended business with personal attention, vast experience of the Seven and much helpful advice is: http://www.albaaustins.co.uk
IS YOUR CAR ALREADY LISTED?
The A7CA provides a list of known vehicles at https://a7ca.org/chassis-register/ check to see if your car is listed (or to add it—that would be very useful). It includes versions by English Austin, American Austin and Bantam, German Dixi and BMW, and French Rosengart. You can search by Model Type and chassis, car, and registration numbers.
For new Austin 7 parts try these links - in no particular order of recommendation:
David Cochraine at: https://www.a7c.co.uk/aboutus.php
Jamie Rogerson at: https://www.theaustinsevenworkshop.com/
http://austinrepro.com/ This company offers standard and also beautifully made, difficult-to-find reproductions of headlamps, speedometers, rev counters and various items for standard cars and also the Swallow, Nippy, Ulster, etc:
For both new, used and some refurbished parts try: Tony Betts at http://www.7ca.co.uk/ and http://www.southernsevens.co.uk
Another link that has details of other repairers, restorers, gearbox, suspension and bodywork experts, etc: https://oldcarservices.co.uk/austin-seven-specialists/ (some of these will be out of data)
The Cornwall Austin 7 Club's website is especially useful with lists of suppliers and much technical advice, etc. https://www.austin7.org/
If you want to know about 'Technical Data & Specifications', thread sizes, etc, this page will help: https://www.austin7.org/Data%20Pages/Tech%20Data/
INTERESTING ODDS and ENDS
For 25+ pages of digitally restored, attractive and high-resolution Austin illustrations (that you can download and print out) see http://www.lathes.co.uk/austin7
Fitting indicators, a guide is available here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/austin-7-indicators
Improving the lights: http://www.lathes.co.uk/austin7-2/page18.html
For the 100th anniversary of the Seven's introduction in 2022, a thousand cars attended a special event: watch the film here: https://a7centenary.com/

[Peter Naulls]

Welcome to the forum Steve. Lovely project you have there and a nice little Fiat too. You'll find plenty of knowledge and enthusiasm on here. You would also be well advised to join one of the owners clubs (if you haven't already) for local help and events. You'll get different recommendations depending where you live.

1. Yes generally BSF & BSW. The exceptions tend to be non-Austin parts like the carb, sender unit, distributor, instruments etc.

2. There's nothing on the chassis number or car number that can help you if that's what you're thinking. Assuming you don't have an original log book then its unlikely you can find out. There is a surviving production ledger for a small number of cars (someone on here will know which) and The Kithead Trust hold registration details for some but I think it's unlikely either can help.

3. I'll leave this for others!

[charlie carpenter]

Hi Welcome to the forum, looking at the picture of the nearside of the engine I can see the 2 plates on the side plate that will give you the chassis and car body number if you carefully remove the paint. this may help identify the car.

Hope this helps.

[Goldnrust]

Thanks for the warm welcome chaps.

That's quite a list of information Tony! Thank you.

Thank you Peter, thats all very helpful. If there's no easy way to cross reference a chassis number or something, then I'm not worried enough to chase down the original colour. My daughters would be disappointed if I changed it anyway now!

Charlie, the chassis and engine numbers come back as early 1935, which matches my February 1935 registration document. The engine number is just a bit higher than the chassis number which from what I've read is about right for it to be the original engine? Not that originality is super important to me, it just helps to know which parts I'm working with!

[Reckless Rat]

If the engine and chassis numbers are reasonably close then it's a fair bet you've got what is called a "matching numbers car" They are never exact matches on late model A7s

[Goldnrust]

Thanks Reckless, as you say they are similar enough that I believe it's the original block.

Frustratingly this project has had to take a bit of a quick change of direction. The scoundrel of a seller has lied to me. I viewed the car in a riverside workshop in Pontypridd a couple of weeks ago (you can probably see where this is going...) and was happy with the condition, turned the engine over on the starting handle with no plugs in saw the pistons going up and down and the engine internals looking clean. I checked the oil etc which all looked good.

The car was due to be delivered to me on the weekend when storm Bert hit, but the seller called to say he would be delayed due to the weather, perfectly understandable. I saw the scale of flooding in Pontypridd on the news, and messaged the seller who confirmed he had moved the car to his house away from the river and not to worry. Sadly I have now discovered that this was a lie.

Parenting and work had meant I'd not given it more than a cursory glance for a few days after it was delivered, but Saturday I had time to have a proper go over the car. When I mentioned in the first post that the engine had no compression, that was because I turned it over on the handle, as delivered with the spark plugs in, and it turned easily, too easily. Looking more closely I could see that the cotter pin for the starting handle had been removed, and so it was slipping on the shaft. Pulling the spark plugs revealed an engine full to the top with water. The seller had clearly the cotter that to avoid me turning it over before he left and discovering the water. There was also a tell tale layer of silt visible when removing the plywood covering the boot floor. Clearly the car had sat in the flood water. 

After much gnashing of teeth, frustration and feeling of disappointment from being duped, I started to move forward. I figured there was no point trying to contact the seller, he'd spun a web of lies over several days and was clearly aware of what he'd done. It was my word against his, and all that would happen if I confronted him is anger and stress. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

The silver lining is that as this car was partially dismantled already and missing most of the interior, there was a lot less for water to damage than would be the case for most cars (though conversely, this is exactly the fact that allowed the seller to deceive me). The fact that the Austin chassis is not boxed in means theres no trapped silt there, likewise the simple body construction makes for minimal cavities to trap water and silt. The main urgent task was to get the water out of the moving parts ASAP before any corrosion could set in. 

So Saturday night, as soon as the kids were asleep, I got to it. I have to say that (so far...) they are such nice vehicles to work on. It's all so simple and also clearly designed to be taken apart and worked on.

I drained several gallons of water from the crank case, before finally some oil came out too. Any claims of accidentally leaving it out in the rain with the spark plugs out, or similar, would be countered by having a gearbox and rear axle also full to the brim with water.

After draining the worst out I started unbolting parts from the engine to make it a smaller more manageable thing to lift. Pulling the cylinder head, and wiping it down to remove the oil & water mix, revealed the nice clean piston tops I'd seen when first viewing the car. They are +30 and the bores look fine. Not amazing, it's clearly done some miles since the rebore, but it looks like it'll do a few more yet to me. 

   

I could see the start of corrosion forming already with some rusty coloured water collecting in some of the ports. So clearly time is of the essence here.

   

With that in mind by 11pm I'd got the engine and gearbox out and sat in my shed. I pulled the sump and wiped out all the water and gunge I could. Everything got a liberal dosing of WD40 and it will sit there for a bit now and wait it's turn. The shed is nice and dry and I've been leaving the heater running in the day to help dry out any moisture I can.

   
   

Rear axle was next, and Monday I had a day off work, so was able to get right to it. I was slightly puzzled initially about how to remove the rear springs from the axle, but there's so much great information out there, I'd soon found articles from various Austin 7 clubs (and this forum) explaining the process and pitfalls, and had removed it by the end of the afternoon. 

   

That means the only mechanical part left on the car with any ability to hold water is the front hubs, and steering box. I'm fast running out of space, so these will just have to wait a bit till I've got some of the other components cleaned up. Hopefully no major harm with be done, but worst case the bearings are available and it should only be a matter of a couple of months, so not expecting any serious deep corrosion in that time.

With the engine and gearbox stabilised as best I could, I decided to start the proper strip down and clean up with the axle. Pulling it apart it was clear the water had got everywhere, up into the torque tube and through all the bearings.

   

That said after a rinse in white spirit, dry out and re-lube with Castol D, the bearings all feel good to me, and the crown wheel and pinion all look in remarkable condition to me. I have decided to leave it there and not split the differential further. Happy to be advised otherwise though?

   

The only signs of wear or damage I can see is to the hub taper on the right hand half shaft. It's a bit gouged and worn, I'm hoping that with a bit of lapping it'll be ok for now! The brake cams also feel a bit loose in the backing plate to me, though I don't know 7s, and am basing this on my knowledge of motorcycle brakes? So I think new bushes would be a good idea to tighten this up. 

I can see I've got a mix of differential oil seals, one rubber lip and one flat, and theres signs of oil making it past the felt, so I'll change them both now. I'll also make the upgrade to sealed rear wheel bearings. So I've placed an order for (hopefully...) all the bits I need to sort the rear axle from A7workshop.

Again compared to working on my BSA, the support and parts available for the 7 is astounding! To find several sources, documenting every roadblock I came up against was so helpful, and I was all set to start turning up various bushes and making lock washers, but when they are just a few pounds each and available on the shelf, it just makes sense to buy them!

[bob46320]

I hope the kids had grown out of that "babygrow' that you are using as a rag !!

[Ivor Hawkins]

I’m sorry to hear about your troubles, but there are some rotten eggs out there, thankfully there are very few in the Seven world.

You’ve done exactly the right thing stripping those parts and getting the moisture out, but overall it looks like a sound little car and a good basis for a rebuild, we’ll done for getting straight to it!

[Howard Wright]

Hi

Regarding the lapping of the rear half shaft taper.  Be very gentle as too much can draw in the differential gear on the end with very noisy and expensive consequences!

I’ve used Loctite 660 taper seal with some success. It’s a kind of quick metal that fills gouges etc in the taper.  It doesn’t glue the taper in and I’ve separated a half shaft taper without drama after using it.

Good luck with the refurb. It will keep you busy for a while!

Cheers

Howard