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Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Ruairidh Dunford - 30-09-2020
Does anyone know if an alternative to the normal Morris Minor (early aluminium and later cast iron) hydraulic cylinders are commonly used on A7s at all. The Master cylinder is from a Triumph Vitesse.
I will post photos when I can get nearer to the car but interested to know if anyone can suggest another type commonly used please?
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - DavidL - 30-09-2020
Sorry to add extra questions rather than offer answers
Is Triumph Vitesse "the normal way this is done"? I'm pondering master cylinder and handbrake options for a friend's special. They've got the "standard" early Morris Minor back plates welded into Austins' built up with cylinders and I'm now remembering "bee hive springs" and all the rest, some hand brake cables, and me. (He's 12 and wanting to finish his dad's project, he died this time last year).
We've a pile of Reliant bits so the default is to use that handbrake assembly with a bar to replace the pulley, and use the peddle assembly complete integrated with an engine mount and steering box mount but wer'e "at an early stage". Engine is going to be Reliant.
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Howard Wright - 30-09-2020
Hi Ruairidh and David
Sorry Ruairidh can’t really help and whilst there is a danger of thread hijack I’d like to comment on David’s question.
One problem you will face with the hydraulic master cylinder is that where you attach the main push rod on the brake pedal will affect the leverage and amount the push rod can move in the cylinder. I found on a previous special that I couldn’t get enough throw to push sufficient fluid around the system. I started using an aftermarket Girling cylinder, 3/4” from memory, but went up to a 7/8” cylinder in order to get sufficient fluid movement.
Hope you get some answers Ruairidh.
Cheers
Howard
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Charles P - 30-09-2020
(30-09-2020, 12:37 PM)DavidL Wrote: Sorry to add extra questions rather than offer answers
Is Triumph Vitesse "the normal way this is done"? I'm pondering master cylinder and handbrake options for a friend's special. They've got the "standard" early Morris Minor back plates welded into Austins' built up with cylinders and I'm now remembering "bee hive springs" and all the rest, some hand brake cables, and me. (He's 12 and wanting to finish his dad's project, he died this time last year).
We've a pile of Reliant bits so the default is to use that handbrake assembly with a bar to replace the pulley, and use the peddle assembly complete integrated with an engine mount and steering box mount but wer'e "at an early stage". Engine is going to be Reliant.
I have a pivoting arm mounted into the chassis member. The brake pedal pulls as normal and the arm transfers this into a push action on a master cylinder mounted on the rear cross member. A key benefit is that leverage is adjustable.
Can't help with RD's real question though.
C
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Ruairidh Dunford - 30-09-2020
A little more digging and it appears they are rear mini cylinders, all round, grafted to semi Girling backplates...
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Charles P - 30-09-2020
(30-09-2020, 02:18 PM)Ruairidh Dunford Wrote: A little more digging and it appears they are rear mini cylinders, all round, grafted to semi Girling backplates...
I'd be interesting in seeing a picture or two
c
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Lowespeed - 30-09-2020
My special user Girling Standard 8 cylinders and a 3/4 Girling master cylinder. The Triumph Herald cylinders are the same on the back I think, but the fronts are different
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Renaud - 30-09-2020
Hi Ruairidh and all,
For once maybe I'm able to give some useful advice here. That will be a first!
I did three times a cable to hydraulic conversion on cars so I've some experience. At least I can tell which mistakes I made.
The choice of master cylinder is very good because those Girling exist in different bores so you can later change if the first choice happen to be wrong.
Then as was emphasized above two things are very important:
The lever effect ie pedal axle to foot versus pedal axle to master cylinder push arm. Better to be able to modify that later if needed.
The rigidity of all the apparatus is incredibly difficult to achieve. Is as better to have the pedal and the master cylinder bolted on the same solid metal contraption and the whole rigidly fixed on the chassis. We are speaking hundreds of kilos of force applied here.
Sorry if my english is not really up to the task!
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Paul N-M - 30-09-2020
Hi Rauiridh,
Mini ones were 5/8" dia. Austin A40 Mk2 and MG Midget ones all look very similar but some went up to 3/4". Austin/Morris/BMC used very similar ones with differing piston dia. on rears so all may fit but hydraulic gain will obviously differ.
RE: Hydraulics on a Seven - other than Morris Minor... - Stuart Giles - 30-09-2020
A special that I worked on a while ago had later Mini twin leading shoe backplates and brakes fitted; these brakes are 7" as per A7 etc. Perhaps the Girling style adjusters that these brakes have were attractive to the builder. The Mini backplates are definitely easier easier to source than 1956-62 Minor ones:
https://www.minisport.com/ms2693-mini-front-drum-brake-assembly-pair-1959-1984.html
When I changed the master cylinders (dual circuit) I used these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Series-2-A-Series-3-Brake-Master-Cylinder-90569126-274841/151016369304?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225114%26meid%3D8293981c6ad848e5a74db5c06c9ebd4f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D371166152445%26itm%3D151016369304%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWebWithDarwoV3BBEV2b&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851