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+--- Thread: Wheeling machines (/showthread.php?tid=2700)
Wheeling machines - DavidL - 24-04-2019
Having just caught up with the Slippery Anne progress it was interesting how the wheeling machine was SUCH a boost to productivity.
Anyone got specific recommendations?
I had a go on one at the London Classic Car show, it was expensive, and of course they were making the case for its refinements. Are the cheap ones still good useful tools? Are they just as good for planishing if not so good for forming?
RE: Wheeling machines - Duncan Grimmond - 24-04-2019
I'd suggest that the most important factors are the rigidity of the frame, ease of adjustment,quick change of anvils and finish of the wheels. If you want to form large panels the depth of throat is also a critical dimension. Make sure change wheels are easily available. Second hand Edwards machines come up fairly often and most spares are available. Frost Restoration do a good range but are not cheap.
As with most things I'd suggest buying the best quality over the cheapest.
RE: Wheeling machines - DavidL - 24-04-2019
I looked up what it was I tried, it was a Justin Baker and they were selling the courses at Bicester as much as the tool.
I've been for a google and I must say we're rather spoilt for choice these days... This was interesting in terms of "what to look for".
https://www.stakesys.co.uk/sta140qr-english-wheel
This one on ebay is attractive for its compactness. If it was used a lot it would earn its own base. They also make them with integrated bases and wall mounted. UK made and possible to buy with a couple of wheels and add more later if needed.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bench-Vice-English-Wheel-With-Anvils-Complete-Setup-Wheeling-Machine/163626168335?hash=item2618e1300f:g:UXoAAOSwQItT7MUY
RE: Wheeling machines - Ian Williams - 25-04-2019
I have an inexpensive Asian made English wheel $600, which is about 300 pounds, my friend Joss has a big cast Edwards machine. The comparison between the two in use is interesting, certainly mine is far less rigid than the Edwards so needs a slightly adapted technique but you can still do some good work. Mine also came with a wide range of lower anvils from flat to quite tight radius which is useful, add a rubber band on the top wheel and you can form single curvature panels which is also very useful . You just have to accept that you may need to make a few improvements to the cheap units, the yoke for the bottom wheel had a bit more movement than I would have liked which affected accuracy of your tracking, but that was easily shimmed to fix. Buy one and have a play!
RE: Wheeling machines - DavidL - 25-04-2019
Here in the UK there's a magazine "Practical Classics". I'm trying to remember if they bought a cheap one and welded a lot of box to it (like they did a cheap bead roller, that one they added a power feed to as well) or they built one from a kit.
Good to hear that a bit of fettling got yours to the "quite decent enough". Am guessing you've got to stop to adjust and its time to get material in and out relative to kick wheels and over centre latches and all the rest that might double a professional's output but make very little difference to an amateur, in particular a beginer.
Trying the one at the show I was very impressed how quick he could wheel a dent out - that was the party trick, hit a nice looking bit of teardrop with a big hammer then make it better again. It made me understand how the "bag of walnuts" of some rough hammer formed shape can be cleaned up into something usable.
My godson has a tail top to make, that's excuse enough. He's happy with rows of rivets so no need to master the ali welding as well. Mine (way back when) is all single curve and screws, was pleased with the tail as the bit that needed to be double curve is where the boot lid goes, similar to an ulster spare wheel cover.
What I remember most is "easy to make something pretty, devil difficult to make two the same or two edges match up".
Its one of those itches that need scratching... I looked at plannishing hammers on youtube, that doesn't look the sort of hobby the neighbours would enjoy or I could do out on the drive in the sunshine while she was planting out bedding. "Industrial" vs "craft".
RE: Wheeling machines - Ian Williams - 26-04-2019
Remember David for a one off panel like the tail section you mention you don't need to invest in the expense of a wheeling machine and can achieve exactly the same with a few hand tools, sand bag, teardrop mallet, a few hammers and dolly's. The tail on this car was all hand shaped, and planished, the only thing wheeled was the boot lid and that could I have done by hand as well. As for noise you will still beed to bash the shape in with a mallet and sand bag before wheeling it smooth, otherwise you will be wheeling for days and days to achieve the same amount of shape.
I should add that like Mark Atkinson I am a self taught but enthusiastic amateur who has built a few cars rather than a professional metal worker like Duncan Grimond.
RE: Wheeling machines - Martin Prior - 26-04-2019
I'm following this thread with great interest, as we (Martin Prior and Son's Motor Works) are looking at expanding our metalworking activities - on a very limited budget - before we get started on our next coachbuilding project. Like Ian and many others here, Dave and I are entirely self-taught.
The "AVQ" van that we've been building takes our current facilities to their limit; the sports saloon/coupe that comes next is going to be a lot more demanding!
RE: Wheeling machines - AllAlloyCup - 26-04-2019
Hi Martin
That’s a neat van , will it be sign written as well.
Are you also making the wings and running boards?
A wheeling machine and a shrinker would make forming the wings
Easier I think?
Regards
Bill G
RE: Wheeling machines - Martin Prior - 26-04-2019
Hi Bill.
Thanks!
The van is for a customer, a well-known supplier to classic car owners, and will be signwritten. However, they're arranging painting and signwriting and I don't know exactly what's planned.
This was once a Mk1 Ruby saloon that years ago had been the subject of someone's failed attempt at a van conversion. The result was unfinished, hideous and hugely heavy. We stripped it back to what was left of the Ruby and started again - fortunately, the saloon wings are repairable (today's job, in fact) and will be re-used.
As Austin never built a Mk1 Ruby based van, we've adapted one of our standard Mk2 AVK van body kits to fit the Mk1 front end.
Ian W. I meant to say earlier that that's a fantastic-looking body. It inspires me to greater efforts!
RE: Wheeling machines - DavidL - 26-04-2019
My efforts of 30 years back (fingers crossed, my first time trying to post photos). Single curve tail, "double curve" bit in free air under the luggage lid. Scuttle top shape by pushing and pulling with hands, at least that's my memory. Maybe it got a bash with a roofers "trunchon" or whatever they're called.
20 years off the road, as ever at this time of year I think "maybe THIS is the year I get it back on the road..."
Can't easily put my hands on pics of godson's car, its at the "plywood and cardboard" stage. I understand his tail COULD be done all by hand (or same trick as mine to "hide" the double curve) but with a premium on his time now the recent insight is to just how much more productive it is using a wheeling machine for the planishing stage. It also appears to be an order of magnitude easier to use in that mode than for shaping, and fun and gratifying.
Photos didn't come through... Here's a link:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/londonsquirrel/albums/72157625109825800