+- Austinsevenfriends (https://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum)
+-- Forum: Austin Seven Friends Forum (https://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Forum chat... (https://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: Query on port-heads (/showthread.php?tid=4280)
RE: Query on port-heads - Nate M - 04-05-2020
(03-05-2020, 03:02 PM)Jeff Taylor Wrote: Hi Nate M,
Unfortunately can't add anything at all to the interesting discussions above other than to say that I happen to own both a new old stock Morris Eight 'Military Tank' engine - (these were fitted to the Army's Centurion main battle tank powering a generator and are based on the 1951 / 53 Morris Series MM Minor SV engine block with the 'in water jacket' water pump / thermostat and external oil filter cartridge unit) - and a now seemingly rare 1946 to 48 Wolseley Eight OHV engine which is in many ways a scaled down version of the MG XPAG as both engines were designed by Claud Bailey. I don't unfortunately have an Alta OHV head conversion unit for the Morris 8 / MM Minor SV engine though I suspect the Wolseley 8 OHV would offer an improvement over the Alta OHV head especially if it were to be breathed upon as seen below. Of course the Wolseley 8 OHV uses a fibre camshaft timing gear / steel crank gear rather than the Renold duplex timing chain used in the Morris 8 / MM Minor SV engines.
The enclosed photo shows what is said to be 'high performance' 1946 Wolseley 8 OHV engine fitted to a 1938 Morris 8 Roadster Special over in Australia. Here's the build spec:
"This 1938 Morris 8/40 Roadster Special was originally built back in 1958 and powered by a 1946 Wolseley 8 OHV engine - one of only 4 Wolseley 8 engines in Australia at that time. The car has been completely restored / rebuilt in recent years reinstating the Wolseley 8 engine in place of a Toyota Corolla engine that had been fitted to the car in the early 1970's.
The chassis was welded and stiffened together with the fitting of telescopic shockers, 9" brakes and rack and pinion steering.
The current Wolseley 8 OHV engine was imported from the UK and rebuilt for high performance by Brian Sampson - bored to 1050cc, 9:1 compression ratio, special sports camshaft, twin 1.5" SU carbs, bespoke inlet manifold and exhaust extractors, 12v electrics and Tacho fitted.
The gearbox is a 4 speed Morris 8 Series E driving through a 4.8 Wolseley Hornet Diff."
The hope is that one of these days I may get round to dropping the Wolseley 8 engine into my 1936 Morris 8 Series I Tourer - would be even better if I could have its performance uprated to the above spec though I suspect that could prove rather expensive!
Jeff.
Have read elsewhere of the Alta head conversion in the 918cc Minor being capable of increasing the output to 38-49 hp, are you saying the 33 hp 918cc Wolseley OHV had a similar scope for improvement?
Interestingly given the 918cc Morris SV / 918cc Wolseley OHV origins as a reverse-engineered Ford Sidevalve (later OHV), a further hypothetical enlargement beyond the originally proposed 950-980cc Wolseley OHV along similar lines to what Ford of Germany achieved with the pre/post-war Taunus up to 1964 with Alta head would equate to around 62-94 hp 1498-1758cc. That is without even bringing up the possibility of Weslake improvements managing to prolong the life of the engine for a bit longer, assuming there was room in the design for such developments or if it was even needed.
Though have seen other sites and books bring up the Wolseley OHV being a slightly heavier rival to the A-Series engine for use in the Morris Minor, it is not mentioned whether the Wolseley OHV engine is closer to the A40 / B-Series engine in terms of weight.
*(- Heard mention made of the XP being capable of larger 1528cc and 1598cc displacements from 1466cc, did not know the XP and Wolseley OHV were related to some extent due to the 918cc Morris SV being a reverse-engineered Ford Sidevalve engine.
RE: Query on port-heads - Rogerfrench - 04-05-2020
Nate, you trail (or troll?) some interesting statements in this thread concerning manufacturers reverse engineering other manufacturers designs! Exactly what is the Ford sidevalve, later OHV engine you have in mind?
I will take particular issue with you over your comments on the Mk V Lotus. It was to be a 750 formula racer, though presumably road-capable since most were in those days. However, any link to the Mk VI is fanciful at best, since that car was a fresh design with no A7 consideration, and I'd suggest that the Lotus Seven descended from the Eleven Mk2 rather than from the VI.
RE: Query on port-heads - Bob Culver - 04-05-2020
BHP is not normally manufacturers first consideration. Torque, economy, is more useful for most motorists. manufacturing ease, existing plant, and cost a huge factor. The BMC A/B series an example.
RE: Query on port-heads - Nate M - 05-05-2020
(04-05-2020, 02:18 PM)Rogerfrench Wrote: Nate, you trail (or troll?) some interesting statements in this thread concerning manufacturers reverse engineering other manufacturers designs! Exactly what is the Ford sidevalve, later OHV engine you have in mind?
I will take particular issue with you over your comments on the Mk V Lotus. It was to be a 750 formula racer, though presumably road-capable since most were in those days. However, any link to the Mk VI is fanciful at best, since that car was a fresh design with no A7 consideration, and I'd suggest that the Lotus Seven descended from the Eleven Mk2 rather than from the VI.
It is something that have previously read about online regarding the 918cc Morris Eight SV with the 933cc Ford SV used in the Ford Model Y (including a few times on the old forum), some say the Morris drew inspiration from the latter at best while have seen others go even further regarding the relationship between the engines (like with Austin on the Bedford built version of the 2nd generation 216 Chevrolet Straight-6).
On the Lotus Mark V, am only bringing up the limited information that is currently available online and do not see how what you could have mistakenly perceived my comment as speaking badly about it. Otherwise thanks for clarifying the Mark V. Mark VI and Seven share no relation to each other.
(04-05-2020, 09:46 PM)Bob Culver Wrote: BHP is not normally manufacturers first consideration. Torque, economy, is more useful for most motorists. manufacturing ease, existing plant, and cost a huge factor. The BMC A/B series an example.
Even though the extra power of a properly developed and enlarged (Taunus P1 to Taunus P3-inspired) 918cc Wolseley OHV would be useful in more sporting applications (as well as helped the post-war Morris Minor take the fight to the Volkswagen Beetle compared to the 918cc Morris SV), it is not so much about the extra power rather it is about the development potential of the Wolseley Eight engine despite its pre-war roots and an opportunity to help post-war Nuffield rationalise its engines down to about two engine families.