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Original Ulster for sale - Printable Version +- Austinsevenfriends (https://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum) +-- Forum: Austin Seven Friends Forum (https://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Forum chat... (https://www.austinsevenfriends.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=14) +--- Thread: Original Ulster for sale (/showthread.php?tid=6764) |
RE: Original Ulster for sale - Edgar Lowe - 20-10-2021 (20-10-2021, 03:20 PM)Hedd_Jones Wrote: With hindsight there have been many poor decisions made in the restoration of historic cars. (20-10-2021, 04:10 PM)Ivor Hawkins Wrote: Hedd, I’m in full agreement with everything you have said. 100% accurate assessment RE: Original Ulster for sale - Tony Johns - 21-10-2021 Mike has mentioned the majority of Ulsters that came to Australia when new in the early 1930's were shipped as rolling chassis and fitted with local bodywork to avoid Import duties on complete cars. This photo is an example of a Melbourne built body and I would be happy to have it in my garage. Not sure which category the experts would place it in? The 10 stud supercharged Ulster I restored and used to own, was assembled with a Rolt body built in 1974. The car is still here and has been on the road for 47 years so again not sure where it would sit with the experts? RE: Original Ulster for sale - Mike Costigan - 21-10-2021 A wonderful photo, Tony. As far a I am concerned, that qualifies as a genuine 'Ulster', since that is the name everyone knows for the standard Sports model. Perhaps we should refer to it as something else, maybe an 'Australian Ulster', after all a Speedy with an Arrow body will be referred to as a Competition Arrow rather than a Speedy... If your Rolt-bodied car started life as an 'Ulster' then I don't see why it should lose that identity just because its body has been replaced; many years ago when I restored my 'Ulster' I went to great lengths to preserve as much of the original body as possible, but it still ended up with a whole side-panel of new metal - does that make it a 'Half-Ulster'? RE: Original Ulster for sale - JonE - 21-10-2021 (21-10-2021, 06:47 AM)Tony Johns Wrote: Mike has mentioned the majority of Ulsters that came to Australia when new in the early 1930's were shipped as rolling chassis and fitted with local bodywork to avoid Import duties on complete cars. This photo is an example of a Melbourne built body and I would be happy to have it in my garage. Not sure which category the experts would place it in? Wonderful photo. In the case of the Aus cars I've asked before if we can identify/review all those rolling chassis cars by chassis number, confidentially if necessary, as it would be interesting to see how they fit in the progression of the ledgered identities - and inform the possible batches/clusters where the ledgers are gone. The engines also have interesting patterns - batches again all the way through till the end of Sports production in 1937 - so the more we know about the serial numbers and stamping locations on axles, gearboxes and engines, the more interesting the cars become and the more chance of identifying 'lost' parts. Some Ulster engines have recently been able to go back to the original body/chassis, for instance... or it makes possibilities for pairs of cars being 'linked' by birth - and later use. RE: Original Ulster for sale - Malcolm Parker - 21-10-2021 The body on my Ulster rep (maker unknown, possibly Rochdale Motor Panels) is at least 60 years old so is probably older than most 'original' Ulsters. I rather like having a car that looks as if it was made in 1930 rather than brand spanking new. As for 'batch numbers', if you start clinically studying the chassis, engine, car and body numbers of the surviving 'original' Ulsters the exercise will throw up more questions than answers. The truth is that the Ulster was always primarily used as a competition car and like any such car, various parts were swapped about as and when necessary either to keep them running or to enhance their performance. It is easy to create a 'history' for a car, and once something either appears in print or God forbid on the internet, then it must be the gospel truth. My Ulster is believed to have been one of two pre-production prototypes that were built for assessment by the Special Forces Section of the Duke of Wellingtons West Yorkshire Regiment , based at their HQ in the old clog factory at Mytholmroyd. RE: Original Ulster for sale - Hedd_Jones - 21-10-2021 (21-10-2021, 08:34 AM)JonE Wrote:(21-10-2021, 06:47 AM)Tony Johns Wrote: Mike has mentioned the majority of Ulsters that came to Australia when new in the early 1930's were shipped as rolling chassis and fitted with local bodywork to avoid Import duties on complete cars. This photo is an example of a Melbourne built body and I would be happy to have it in my garage. Not sure which category the experts would place it in? All good stuff Jon. You will run up against problems in some circles doing that, which is a shame. But that is life. There are certainly patterns to be seen even in the limited info availible in the register. I've probably concluded one of the crankcases in the garage is the original from the RP. Its just a pity there is a hole in the side (which I remember happening when I was 3). You can also work out the relationship between car number and chassis number at various points with a fair degree if certainty. This is sometimes helpfull, particularly when you have a car that is registered with the DVLA, but no V5 is present. And the chassis number youve quoted isnt what the DVLA have (so you then try the car number...). This has worked for me twice now. RE: Original Ulster for sale - austin - 21-10-2021 Hi Mike, I'm going to be awkward a disagree with you here, (but it is just my opinion, and by no means right.) A "Standard Sports" is a very different model: For me an "Ulster", (which we know isn't a factory term) is an EA Sports, that left the works as a complete car with the two seat body we know as the "Ulster" shape. The cars that went to Australia as rolling chassis in my mind are still 2 seater sports, (and no less interesting to me) but it's not something I would call an Ulster. Once you get into the world of originality and continuous history it all can get a bit "trigger's broom". Original maybe, even though it's on the third engine and a new body was fitted 40 years ago. (21-10-2021, 08:16 AM)Mike Costigan Wrote: A wonderful photo, Tony. As far a I am concerned, that qualifies as a genuine 'Ulster', since that is the name everyone knows for the standard Sports model. Perhaps we should refer to it as something else, maybe an 'Australian Ulster', after all a Speedy with an Arrow body will be referred to as a Competition Arrow rather than a Speedy... (21-10-2021, 08:55 AM)Malcolm Parker Wrote: My Ulster is believed to have been one of two pre-production prototypes that were built for assessment by the Special Forces Section of the Duke of Wellingtons West Yorkshire Regiment , based at their HQ in the old clog factory at Mytholmroyd. Brilliant, that is how legends are made to good to not be correct! RE: Original Ulster for sale - JonE - 21-10-2021 (21-10-2021, 08:55 AM)Malcolm Parker Wrote: As for 'batch numbers', if you start clinically studying the chassis, engine, car and body numbers of the surviving 'original' Ulsters the exercise will throw up more questions than answers. And after 100 years, what else IS there to do but ask new questions (and drive around a bit)? That's what makes us human! RE: Original Ulster for sale - Malcolm Parker - 21-10-2021 (21-10-2021, 09:55 AM)JonE Wrote:(21-10-2021, 08:55 AM)Malcolm Parker Wrote: As for 'batch numbers', if you start clinically studying the chassis, engine, car and body numbers of the surviving 'original' Ulsters the exercise will throw up more questions than answers. I agree, Jon. Asking questions does however make a lot of people very upset! RE: Original Ulster for sale - Mike Costigan - 21-10-2021 That's the problem, Austin, both models were catalogued by AMCo as 'Sports', so we now need to differentiate between them. I can accept . your terminology for the early car as Standard Sports (with capital letters) although I prefer the term 50-mph Sports. Calling the later car an EA Sports is fine, but we just have to accept that Ulster is the favoured name by most people. What really upsets me is when someone refers to the supercharged EA as a Super Sports, which was a different model altogether. |