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+--- Thread: Vintage Vandalism (/showthread.php?tid=5109)
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Austin in the Shed - 20-10-2020
As a comparison to the Amilcar.Several years ago I purchased a 1930 RK,still in its original paint sight unseen,only in photographs in which it was described as "Excellent body condition" by a respected dealer.
It hadn't been on the road for many years,the tyres suggesting pre MOT.
It was not as the description bodily and could have been an ideal candidate for an Ulster replica.I had the body repaired,costing around £3 1/2k,wood and steelwork required .I guess the value of a restored RK as about £12k,as an ulster Maybe £20k ?
The Amilcar looked lovely,however trying to keep the oily rag look if the timber frame is dodgy would be difficult and guess it would be more desirable as a "Sports" and same with value too.
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Ian Williams - 20-10-2020
Hmmmm this is a very difficult subject isn't it, a good many of todays highly respected historic specials were years ago created from perfectly salvageable saloons. In some cases they were created from quite exotic sports cars as well, actions most people would decry today and some did back then. Now besides the destruction of good restorable cars we have a situation where occasionally important historic specials are converted back to their original form or robbed of parts. There is probably one the most significant A7 special's in the A7 world which suffered this fate. I guess the difference today is cars in original condition are becoming increasingly scarce and once originality is lost it can never be replaced. We all have different views and I am often accused of rivet counting or some such because of my desire to see and create cars with period authenticity. That said I am a special builder, but one who would not fit hydraulic brakes, dampers, electronic distributors, alternators etc etc. Ironically to me some of same people who decry the actions here may well not bat an eyelid at these additions and alterations on their seven. What ever our personal views we need to accept that the rest of the world may not share them.
RE: Vintage Vandalism - David Stepney - 20-10-2020
I am fortunate in being the current custodian of a "matching numbers" RP saloon that is more or less in the same spec as when it left the factory in 1933.There are, admittedly, one or two details that are not quite right: it received a major refurbishment over forty years ago, when it managed to lose its smokers hatch when the roof was recovered, and whilst the interior has been re-upholshered in the original pattern, it has been done in a light tan vinyl material that is more orange than I suspect was the original.
At some point in its life, it has been fitted with a C35M dynamo rather than the C35A that was originally fitted, and has "pin type" later pattern valves. Both were probably fitted at some point in the more distant past when it was more important to keep a working car in good repair.
Although not by any means perfect, it is a nice, original and usable car and suspect that such cars will become increasingly rare as time goes by. I would hate it to be stripped and turned into a special by some future owner.
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Tony Griffiths - 21-10-2020
"Ulster" replicas: why are there so many half-hearted attemps at these? For me, the only ones to have any appeal whatsoever are those on a short chassis with a correctly proportioned aluminum body taken by formers from an original; touring wings; the correct windscreen and instruments; a hood - and, most important, the associated discomforts and privations that this sporting car had originally. I suppose, as so few short chassis are now available - one no longer finds three or four propping up an outbuilding's roof and available for a pound each - that destroying a Box or Ruby is the only way to go.
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Ian Williams - 21-10-2020
And remember that it was only a very few years ago many A7 people looked down their noses at Rubys!
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Charles P - 21-10-2020
(21-10-2020, 12:40 AM)Tony Griffiths Wrote: "Ulster" replicas: why are there so many half-hearted attemps at these? For me, the only ones to have any appeal whatsoever are those on a short chassis with a correctly proportioned aluminum body taken by formers from an original; touring wings; the correct windscreen and instruments; a hood - and, most important, the associated discomforts and privations that this sporting car had originally. I suppose, as so few short chassis are now available - one no longer finds three or four propping up an outbuilding's roof and available for a pound each - that destroying a Box or Ruby is the only way to go.
Whilst I generally agree with your thesis Tony why the touring wings and hood? Many (most?) cars in period had them removed/ replaced if used in competition much.
My personal dislike is the fashion for entering them in competitions as an "EA". I don't know of a prewar competition entry using that reference.
Charles
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Dave Wortley - 21-10-2020
Charles,
You are obviously correct about removing touring wings for competition use but I like the touring wings because it makes the car prettier! I am biased because I spent years making touring wings in aluminium in my spare time in the 70’s.
Cheers,
Dave.
RE: Vintage Vandalism - orthoptera - 21-10-2020
I read the article and put the mag down, returned and read it again and yes I can see both points of view.
What a desirable car to own in its present condition, but I don't and am unlikely in the future to have the funds to purchase it, I do not have the woodworking skills or the time to return the body to a useable condition so sadly not for me as beautiful as it is.
Your combined thoughts made me consider my own Special, originally built from a Ruby chassis and Ford 1172 engine, gearbox and axles in 1951 and purchased by me some 20 years ago with the intention of competing in MCC/Classic Trials.
So the car the chassis came from was possibly 15 years old at the time of construction and presumably damaged or worthless in some way enabling the constructor to achieve his dreams and certainly not a "classic" at that time.
Getting the car into a useable condition took a considerable time and not a small amount of outlay, along the way it received an alternator, electronic ignition, modern electric fuel pump, electric rev counter etc etc, all of this with a view to ensuring the reliability required to compete and finish in classic trials.
The profile and major components are true to the builders dream and the car performs well, but it is a Specials that follows "Jenks" definition.
I believe I have preserved a good example of an important phase in the British motor sport movement (now industry) and more to the point I get a lot of fun using it, it is a fun thing and definitely not an investment!
The problem for the Amilcar is the huge industry that has developed around the Classic Vehicle movement. Without that industry and the supposed value of our cars we would not be able to so easily obtain parts or find the specialists who can undertake detailed work, but everyone employed in this industry wants to make a living, some a better living than others.
In short we are guilty of being to successful not only are the vehicles available but entrepreneurs are arranging myriad events for owners to participate in many of these outside of the VSCC and similar bodies and this will encourage those we believe to be unscrupulous.
And my other classic car, well I don't have one but when I dispose of the three motorcycles I will be looking for an ideally unrestored Chummy or RP but as my good lady says "It must have doors, windows and a roof"!
See you on the hills hopefully
RE: Vintage Vandalism - Mike Costigan - 21-10-2020
OK folks, here's another one ripe for ripping apart and converting into a special:
https://www.prewarcar.com/313220-1926-austin-7-top-hat-saloon
313220-1603205954-2329737.jpeg (Size: 105.05 KB / Downloads: 218)
... but you just wouldn't, would you?
RE: Vintage Vandalism - orthoptera - 21-10-2020
Mike I just love it as it is but too much money for me