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+--- Thread: Ulster body painting (/showthread.php?tid=447)
RE: Ulster body painting - Chris KC - 15-11-2017
No doubt at all that POR15 is jolly good stuff. However, that 3-stage (actually, 4 stage, if you want uv resistance) process is difficult to manage on a floorpan in situ without leaving a general mess elsewhere. It is also a barrier coating, which is fine for whole parts, but less fine if there is a painted edge under which corrosion can creep (e.g. from the floor to body joint). I can't help wondering how well other coatings (including Hammerite) would fare if they benefitted from the same religious preparation incl. phosphate coat. Fact remains that it is overkill on a typical Austin Seven - most of our cars don't go out in the salt and snow much!
RE: Ulster body painting - Ian Williams - 15-11-2017
My biggest problem with POR15 was that rust spread extensively beneath it, it is the only paint system where I have experienced this to the same degree. The comments about the cosmetic appearance of the product is my personal preference, in much the same way as my dislike of powder coating, but if it works for some then great, just relaying my personal experience of using the product.
RE: Ulster body painting - Dennis Nicholas - 15-11-2017
(15-11-2017, 01:35 PM)Chris KC Wrote: No doubt at all that POR15 is jolly good stuff. However, that 3-stage (actually, 4 stage, if you want uv resistance) process is difficult to manage on a floorpan in situ without leaving a general mess elsewhere. It is also a barrier coating, which is fine for whole parts, but less fine if there is a painted edge under which corrosion can creep (e.g. from the floor to body joint). I can't help wondering how well other coatings (including Hammerite) would fare if they benefitted from the same religious preparation incl. phosphate coat. Fact remains that it is overkill on a typical Austin Seven - most of our cars don't go out in the salt and snow much!I agree the prep stages are a pain but suspect any other good paint system needs equally as much prep.
Hammerite formula was changed a few years ago..-in my view to its detriment-.....try using the original thinners with the latest stuff and see what happens!!!! (was it EU rules to do with the chemicals in use?) I very carefully prepared bits under my Scimitar and used the newer formula including its new thinners (thats when I discovered my part full tin of thinners was obsolete!!) but very soon the paint was trash. I am a bit of a perfectionist....even the nuts and washers I use get blasted and painted BEFORE fitting then a coat after fitting to touch up any damage such as filing bolts level with nut faces and digs from internal toothed lock-washers). Waxoil did not save the day either.
Salt and snow.......It is not just the salt and snow that makes rust, any damp atmosphere which seeps everywhere will cause unprotected steel to rust......do you have a heated dehumidified storage?
Painted edge.....Paint both sides and seam sealer will also help before the final cosmetic colour coat of your choice. No paint will prevent raw steel edges rusting and the rust spreading under. Floor to body seam......KBS paint carefully brushed into seam will seal it. Overlapping new panels welded in - treat with weld through primer before putting together and welding, then the KBS outer coating.
A hot air gun is extremely good for quick drying after washing during the prep period.
Once again check out the independent comments from the many American magazines and users/forums on the internet.
I know I am in my early 70s but I hope I will be around in XX years time to prove the fruits of my labour
Give me a call in 2037 for a situation report on the Nippy chassis, running gear and body. 
Dennis
(15-11-2017, 03:37 PM)Ian Williams Wrote: My biggest problem with POR15 was that rust spread extensively beneath it, it is the only paint system where I have experienced this to the same degree.That tends to show proper prep was not carried out. Spread from where?
If you get it on your skin the only way to remove it is when that bit of skin gets worn off....ask me how I know. My skin is not 100% waterproof and I am a bit damp inside....but still the paint remained and flexed (but no rust).......using a grinder did not seem to be a a preferred removal technique
Dennis
RE: Ulster body painting - Ian Williams - 16-11-2017
Dennis, you are quite obviously a convert, and have had a different experience, I tried POR15 at least 10 years ago and was not satisfied with the product for my purposes, and yes I used their metal ready rust treatment first, I am simply relaying my experiences and will stick with what I know works for me and stays that way longterm. Others my choose to follow your example, if nothing else our conversation will highlight the need to be absolutely scrupulous with preparation, if I am slack in this respect I am slack with other paint systems too, but I have had good results on many paint jobs. I have a chassis wire brushed and painted with Hammerite in 1984, other than a few stone chips it is still perfect, interestingly rust has not spread under the edges of the chips either. I stopped using Hamerite because a, the formula changed and b, because I now have even better results with 2k. I learnt to paint cars in the early 80's using Cellulose, that is no longer an option here so I tried Acrylic and enamel lacquers, neither were really to my satisfaction, the suppliers suggested 2k and gave sound advice, so today I use PPG or Delfleet with excellent results.
RE: Ulster body painting - David.H - 16-11-2017
(16-11-2017, 12:38 AM)Ian Williams Wrote: Dennis, you are quite obviously a convert, and have had a different experience, I tried POR15 at least 10 years ago and was not satisfied with the product for my purposes, and yes I used their metal ready rust treatment first, I am simply relaying my experiences and will stick with what I know works for me and stays that way longterm. Others my choose to follow your example, if nothing else our conversation will highlight the need to be absolutely scrupulous with preparation, if I am slack in this respect I am slack with other paint systems too, but I have had good results on many paint jobs. I have a chassis wire brushed and painted with Hammerite in 1984, other than a few stone chips it is still perfect, interestingly rust has not spread under the edges of the chips either. I stopped using Hamerite because a, the formula changed and b, because I now have even better results with 2k. I learnt to paint cars in the early 80's using Cellulose, that is no longer an option here so I tried Acrylic and enamel lacquers, neither were really to my satisfaction, the suppliers suggested 2k and gave sound advice, so today I use PPG or Delfleet with excellent results.Ian
Did I miss it somewhere? what is 2k?
David
RE: Ulster body painting - Colin Reed - 16-11-2017
(16-11-2017, 10:59 AM)David.H Wrote:HI David, 2K is a paint that requires a hardener added. most Auto paint supply Firms will have it.(16-11-2017, 12:38 AM)Ian Williams Wrote: Dennis, you are quite obviously a convert, and have had a different experience, I tried POR15 at least 10 years ago and was not satisfied with the product for my purposes, and yes I used their metal ready rust treatment first, I am simply relaying my experiences and will stick with what I know works for me and stays that way longterm. Others my choose to follow your example, if nothing else our conversation will highlight the need to be absolutely scrupulous with preparation, if I am slack in this respect I am slack with other paint systems too, but I have had good results on many paint jobs. I have a chassis wire brushed and painted with Hammerite in 1984, other than a few stone chips it is still perfect, interestingly rust has not spread under the edges of the chips either. I stopped using Hamerite because a, the formula changed and b, because I now have even better results with 2k. I learnt to paint cars in the early 80's using Cellulose, that is no longer an option here so I tried Acrylic and enamel lacquers, neither were really to my satisfaction, the suppliers suggested 2k and gave sound advice, so today I use PPG or Delfleet with excellent results.Ian
Did I miss it somewhere? what is 2k?
David
It is not a Trade name.
Colin
RE: Ulster body painting - Erich - 16-11-2017
David, unless I'm missing something as well, Ian is likely referring to 2k or 2 pack acrylic enamels. They have less thinner than cellulose lacquers so have faster build up, less waste. Basically a paint with a hardener or catalyst.
Erich
RE: Ulster body painting - Dennis Nicholas - 16-11-2017
(16-11-2017, 12:38 AM)Ian Williams Wrote: Dennis, you are quite obviously a convert, and have had a different experience, I tried POR15 at least 10 years ago and was not satisfied with the product for my purposes, and yes I used their metal ready rust treatment first, I am simply relaying my experiences and will stick with what I know works for me and stays that way longterm........
the suppliers suggested 2k and gave sound advice, so today I use PPG or Delfleet with excellent results.
Just to clarify to all I am talking about "KBS Coatings" paint (a more developed version of the POR 15 by the chaps that in the begining worked to produce POR 15 but went on their own because they did not agree with original firm policy.)
Can everyone open the attachment I had on my first post?? thread No 18
It should have just attached as a document but somehow it got transformed into what is there.
Please someone advise if it cant be opened and I will take another bite at my Apple and try again!
Dennis
RE: Ulster body painting - Reckless Rat - 17-11-2017
2K paint is not for the DIY bodger. The hardener is isocyanate and you must use specialist breathing apparatus and a spray booth for safety. Goes on nice though.