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+--- Thread: Oil jets (/showthread.php?tid=2137)
RE: Oil jets - Bill Dixon - 19-12-2018
Colin,
I too turn the engine over 6 or so turns this helps to extend the life of the battey as well.
RE: Oil jets - Dave Mann - 21-12-2018
One question I have, does anybody know who designed the jet lubrication system? Was it Stanley, Herbert or pirated from another company/designer?
RE: Oil jets - Ken Morton - 21-12-2018
What about the by pass valve? In order to get more flow, an additional spring behind the ball on the by pass valve would increase the pressure. Some of the sports engines had adjustable valves.
RE: Oil jets - Tony Press - 21-12-2018
(21-12-2018, 03:32 PM)Dave Mann Wrote: One question I have, does anybody know who designed the jet lubrication system? Was it Stanley, Herbert or pirated from another company/designer?
From memory (unreliable) an early Bugatti had similar . Maybe better than the dip system.
RE: Oil jets - Colin Morgan - 21-12-2018
The second patent on the plate says "Connecting Rod Lubrication". Not sure what the patent covers, but suggests Stanley Edge or Sir Herbert had a hand in it?
Colin
RE: Oil jets - Tony Press - 22-12-2018
(21-12-2018, 11:33 PM)Colin Morgan Wrote: The second patent on the plate says "Connecting Rod Lubrication". Not sure what the patent covers, but suggests Stanley Edge or Sir Herbert had a hand in it?
Colin
The Bugatti Trust notes-
"During testing in 1921 Bugatti struggled to achieve success with this bottom end lubrication system. A large volume of oil at low pressure would be needed to fill the deep annular grooves in the crank webs against centrifugal force. Double oil pumps had been tried but the total theoretical clearance of 22mm2 for the oil to leak out of the system before any would get to the big ends was too much. Bugatti’s solution to this problem was his invention to inject the oil deep into the crank grooves with cross drilled jets which became the well known standard Bugatti arrangement applied to all Types from 1923".
The Bugatti system, while using a jet to feed oil to the big ends it seems to be quite different arrangement to the Austin 7 jet and would allow a patent to be applied for - whether Stanley or Herbert came up with this doesn't seem to be mentioned.
RE: Oil jets - Dave Mann - 14-01-2019
I've finally unearthed patent number 199540 and it reads as follows: " Austin, Sir H. April 18, 1922. Channels in cranks. -One of the cranks d in respect of each bigend of the connecting- rods of an internalcombustion engine has a recess c formed in that face which is towards the direction of rotation, the recess connecting by internal passages c<1>, c<2>, c<3> with the respective crankpin. As the. shaft rotates, oil falling freely or projected from a nozzle D fed from a pump or other source is received in the recess c as the crank passes the horizontal in an upward direction, and is led by centrifugal force to the surface of the crank-pin. Alternatively, the recess c may be formed in that face of the crank which is away from the direction of rotation, in which case oil is received in the recess when the crank passes the horizontal in a downward direction. Where two crank pins connect on to one crank, a recess is provided in both sides of the crank, one in respect of each crank pin, both recesses being fed from the same nozzle."
So the jet lubrication system system was a Seven design but was it the work of Stanley or Herbert?
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RE: Oil jets - Mike Costigan - 14-01-2019
From what I can make out from various sources, the development of the Seven seems to have centred round Herbert Austin's basic ideas refined by Stanley Edge's technical knowledge and draftsmanship. In this case the patent drawing certainly looks to be by Stanley's hand, but obviously as Austin was Stanley's employer, he would be able to claim the patent rights.
RE: Oil jets - Dave Mann - 14-01-2019
I agree Mike, the product of a fertile young mind.
RE: Oil jets - Bob Culver - 14-01-2019
The origin of oil jet system was raked over previously but cannot recall just when. The Brescia Bugatti model as raced by Raymond Mays in early 20s had system. The model dated from 1910 but may have been variants. One from later model was published in Forum. I have read somewhere that the FN motorcycle engine influenced the Seven. The 748cc 1923 engine at least has Austin sytem. The Belgian firm may not have had UK patent coverage. Or Austin may have fluked gaining it.
just what happens to the flow with the crank whizzing by at 4,000 rpm is anyones guess? I guess the exact aim is academic.
Oil likely both enters and exits the conrod drillings.
At just 3 psi or so how far does the flow from any upward jets project?