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+--- Thread: E10 fuel... (/showthread.php?tid=1588)
RE: E10 fuel... - Mike Costigan - 16-08-2018
Modern fuel certainly seems to be causing problems in the wider classic car world, especially with rubber components in the fuel system - as others have said, flexible fuel lines, pump diaphragms and filler seals all seem to be affected. I have encountered collapsing hoses and disintegrating pump components, and know several other owners who have experienced similar problems. I am not a chemist, so have no way of knowing whether ethanol is the problem, or some other constituent of modern petrol.
Another problem I have encountered is stale fuel in a car which had been unused for eighteen months: the engine started and idled with no problem, but under load it misfired and progressively lost power. The solution proved to be a set of new plugs; apparently under rich mixture starting conditions the stale fuel leaves a varnish on the plugs which breaks down the insulation and cannot be removed.
RE: E10 fuel... - Nick Turley - 16-08-2018
(16-08-2018, 08:24 AM)Ruairidh Dunford Wrote: I see the FBHVC are asking about our cars and the introduction of E10 fuels here: https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS
My own experience is that I used E10 exclusively for our tour around France this summer - the car ran perfectly on it for 2500 miles and returned 35mpg despite the weight it was carrying (GW of just under a tonne). I have used petrol containing ethanol in all the Austins since it was introduced and have never suffered any issues. 4 years ago I undertook a trip to Switzerland in the Pearl alternating 98 and E95 octane fuel each day. It misfired (almost pinked) on the 98 so much in the heat that after 4 days I reverted to E95 exclusively. I have asked several times on Forums if anyone can attribute issues in use of their A7 exclusively to the addition of ethanol but have yet to hear any replies. Plenty of worry about the potential issues but nothing, as yet, which is substantial. Has anyone here suffered something in their A7 which they can evidence back to Ethanol - genuinely interested?
Sadly I cannot give firm proven evidence but this is my take on the matter.
Ethanol absorbs water vapour so fuel will go "off". My solution is to add "Millers tank safe" when leaving a car say for a period like winter.
Treated in this way I can say with certainty that the fuel is still good after three years. The more important aspect is that the tank does not then rust, I personally choose to fill the tank full for lay up.
I also choose to put an additive - VSP in the fuel for normal running This is both an ethanol killer and lead additive in one. I think the ethanol killer of which there are many brands is a good thing, the lead side of it is probably not really needed in a Seven.
If you are working the engine hard, plugs are then fine but, and it is a but if you drive easy I believe you now need a hotter plug.
I have had quite a lot of experience of this plug failure in different chums cars. The result of which in some cases has caused mag failure. With this fuel once a plug misfires I believe it is not easy to clean back into service.
Oven cleaner seems to be the only stuff or of course a proper plug blaster.
RE: E10 fuel... - jansens - 16-08-2018
No experience with Austins yet but I know I avoid the Ethanol fuels in my MGB. The car runs better on high octane mineral fuel and I don't have to worry about all the rubber hoses in the car. Also the exhaust always smells a bit odd with E10 fuels. Somewhat unburnt although the plugs are always looking fine when I check. Probably something you notice more in an open top car.
I find it hard to find out exactly what is in the fuels here. The web sites for the fuel companies all talk in marketing bullshit (with fine print saying may not be applicable to the real world). I might see if I can ask them for the MSDS for the fuels to see what's in them. Edit: BP at least have them online: http://www.msds.bp.co.nz
It's also true about how dangerous siphoning petrol is, especially if you get any in your lungs. My uncle ended up in hospital from it once after having some 'go down the wrong way" transferring fuel about.
Simon
Also Shell (Z): https://z.co.nz/assets/2018-safety-data-sheets/Petrol-Unleaded.pdf
And Mobile: http://www.waitomogroup.co.nz/fuel/
RE: E10 fuel... - Reckless Rat - 16-08-2018
I generally run my RP on supermarket brand 95 unleaded, but that's getting rarer as days go by and I may have to opt for 98 rather than the E10 based fuels. The RP seems to run on virtually anything and I've never experienced problems with stale fuel (to date). I am more worried about touring these days in the MGF, which is not ethanol compatible. It was new in 1997 and petrol cars before 2001 are not compliant. I don't think the occasional tankful will be over-detrimental but long term use can apparently cause damage to the fuel system, pump, seals injectors and various other bits. Be aware if touring that non ethanol based petrol is no longer available on the French motorway network so to get normal 95 or 98 unleaded you have to search elsewhere. (Most supermarkets have fuel)
I have heard however that even 'normal' 95 or 98 octane unleaded can contain up to 5% ethanol so there's not really much you can do other than keep your fingers crossed.
RE: E10 fuel... - JonE - 17-08-2018
(16-08-2018, 11:36 AM)Robert Leigh Wrote: ...cutting out the hotspot connection on side draft manifolds, to try to reduce problems.
Robert - do you reckon this was a worthwhile mod? I'm going to retain the ruby manifold on the 29 and was wondering whether to do it or not. I suppose it all adds to weight saving too...
RE: E10 fuel... - Dave Wortley - 17-08-2018
I noticed the Slosh fuel tank sealant in 2 x A7 tanks has areas of blisters. The Slosh was applied in 1992 for one tank and 2002 for the other.
RE: E10 fuel... - Robert Leigh - 17-08-2018
(17-08-2018, 09:42 AM)JonE Wrote:I am convinced that vaporisation is reduced by cutting out the hotspot. I know some people wrap insulating material round the exhaust, particularly the part in the under-bonnet area.(16-08-2018, 11:36 AM)Robert Leigh Wrote: ...cutting out the hotspot connection on side draft manifolds, to try to reduce problems.
Robert - do you reckon this was a worthwhile mod? I'm going to retain the ruby manifold on the 29 and was wondering whether to do it or not. I suppose it all adds to weight saving too...
RE: E10 fuel... - Roger Goldthorpe - 19-08-2018
I have usually filled up from one of the supermarkets with 95 petrol. To date I have had no problems and the RP starts on the first swing after 5 months layup. Never sure how much petrol is in the tank.
My Liege is Reliant powered and it may be of interest to note that the Haynes manual for the Reliant published in 1989 under routine maintenance states:-
‘Every 36000 miles (60000 km) or 3 years, whichever comes first’ - ‘Renew fuel pipes’.
The fuel pipes are a combination of plastic and rubber.
Ethanol perhaps contributes to the deterioration of these components but it appears not to be a new problem.
Roger
RE: E10 fuel... - Nick Lettington - 24-02-2019
"I can smell petrol"
Yes... Thats because the newly supplied rubber fuel pipe to conect the tank to the copper line (fitted 6 months ago) has rotted through.
Was planning on working on the ORT today but had to spend the time helping a mate change the tubing on his 68 beetle. Love that ethanol stuff!
RE: E10 fuel... - Paul N-M - 24-02-2019
(16-08-2018, 02:28 PM)Nick Turley Wrote:For general info. Tetra Boost has been formulated to prolong petrol life with up to 15% ethanol as well as put lead in the fuel. It does not stop the ethanol attacking non compatable materials. I use it in my Bentley and Austin specials and it definately helps.(16-08-2018, 08:24 AM)Ruairidh Dunford Wrote: I see the FBHVC are asking about our cars and the introduction of E10 fuels here: https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS
My own experience is that I used E10 exclusively for our tour around France this summer - the car ran perfectly on it for 2500 miles and returned 35mpg despite the weight it was carrying (GW of just under a tonne). I have used petrol containing ethanol in all the Austins since it was introduced and have never suffered any issues. 4 years ago I undertook a trip to Switzerland in the Pearl alternating 98 and E95 octane fuel each day. It misfired (almost pinked) on the 98 so much in the heat that after 4 days I reverted to E95 exclusively. I have asked several times on Forums if anyone can attribute issues in use of their A7 exclusively to the addition of ethanol but have yet to hear any replies. Plenty of worry about the potential issues but nothing, as yet, which is substantial. Has anyone here suffered something in their A7 which they can evidence back to Ethanol - genuinely interested?
Sadly I cannot give firm proven evidence but this is my take on the matter.
Ethanol absorbs water vapour so fuel will go "off". My solution is to add "Millers tank safe" when leaving a car say for a period like winter.
Treated in this way I can say with certainty that the fuel is still good after three years. The more important aspect is that the tank does not then rust, I personally choose to fill the tank full for lay up.
I also choose to put an additive - VSP in the fuel for normal running This is both an ethanol killer and lead additive in one. I think the ethanol killer of which there are many brands is a good thing, the lead side of it is probably not really needed in a Seven.
If you are working the engine hard, plugs are then fine but, and it is a but if you drive easy I believe you now need a hotter plug.
I have had quite a lot of experience of this plug failure in different chums cars. The result of which in some cases has caused mag failure. With this fuel once a plug misfires I believe it is not easy to clean back into service.
Oven cleaner seems to be the only stuff or of course a proper plug blaster.